22 messages over 3 pages: 1 2 3
garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5007 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish
| Message 17 of 22 18 December 2011 at 3:02pm | IP Logged |
I find the French relative pronoun system a lot more logical than ours, once you get the hang of it - "qui" for the subject, "que" for the object, add a "ce" before and it's indefinite, and the others like "dont" etc.. Each word has one purpose. We can say "The man I met", "The man who I met", "The man whom I met", "The man that I met", or "The man which I met" but in French it's just the one option, l'homme que j'ai rencontré.
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| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4856 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian*
| Message 18 of 22 18 December 2011 at 4:19pm | IP Logged |
We were taught that we can't use which with animate nouns.
Russian spelling system isn't easy too.
I don't like multiple negation in Russian.
- Что ты не понимаешь7
- Ничего.
- Ничего не понимаешь?
The first answer can't be answered in one word if you understand everything. It's not
obvious what to answer to a negative question. Usage of genetive in some languages is
wider and can replace a lot of adjectives.
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| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5145 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish*
| Message 19 of 22 18 December 2011 at 5:06pm | IP Logged |
Languages are not something put together in order to "make sense", and their arbitrariness and quirks are part of what makes learning different ones a pleasure.
They all however are subject to the same laws and principles of thought and communication, so the more of them you learn, the better equipped you are to approach additional ones, even if genetically unrelated.
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| Camundonguinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4549 days ago 273 posts - 500 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish Studies: Swedish
| Message 20 of 22 24 December 2011 at 4:05pm | IP Logged |
Articles are complicated because every language uses them in a different way:
He is a professor. (English, with article)
Ele é professor. (Portuguese, no article)
Pronominal clitics are awkward, and they make look Spanish very stuffy:
Me imagino! (Spanish) I imagine (to) myself
(Eu) imagino! (Brazilian Portuguese) (I) imagine
I can imagine that! (English)
Tú te lo mereces (Spanish) You deserve it to yourself.
Você merece (Brazilian Portuguese) You deserve
You deserve it (English) You deserve it
Dámelo! (Spanish) Give it to me
Me de! (Portuguese) Give me!
In Spanish I get the impression that spekers all do something to themselves and want to use IT with it all the time:
Spain, a country to eat (well):
España, un país para comerselo
Spain, a country yo eat it to yourself
it sounds so ackward, in Portuguese: Espanha, um país de comer (bem) would be more than sufficient.
Also, indirect object:
Estou mandando um abraço para ela (I am sending you my greetings)
in Spanish would be: Estoy mandándole un abrazo a ella, with the redundant LE.
It makes Spanish sentences so stuffy and long, so Spanish speakers have to speak so fast to compensate.
Spoken Brazilian Portuguese as well as spoken Italian has reduced the number of demonstratives from 3 (este, esse, aquele; questo, codesto, quello) to two only:
this (ese; questo) and that (aquele; quello). Two level difference is more than enough!
Edited by Camundonguinho on 24 December 2011 at 4:14pm
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| Camundonguinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4549 days ago 273 posts - 500 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish Studies: Swedish
| Message 21 of 22 24 December 2011 at 4:13pm | IP Logged |
On the other hand, I'm happy [Brazilian] Portuguese marks a difference between something continuous, temporary and permanent:
Eu faço. = I do it.
Estou fazendo = I'm doing it.
Tenho uma calça amarela. = I have a yellow pair of pants. (I own it)
Estou com uma calça amarela. = I have a yellow pair of pants on me (right now).
Tenho dor de cabeça. = I regularly have headaches.
Estou com uma dor de cabeça = I have a headache (right now).
Ela é louca. = She's crazy.
Ela está louca. = She's being/acting crazy.
6 verbal forms is way too much, for example in Peninsular Spanish:
voy, vas, va, vamos, vais, van
In Brazilian Portuguese:
eu vou
você vai
ele/ela vai
---
a gente vai ~ nós vamos
vocês vão
eles/elas vão
Only 4 forms, and if you use A GENTE (comparable to ON in French)
instead of NóS, you have only 3 verbal forms, this is more than enough!
Edited by Camundonguinho on 24 December 2011 at 4:28pm
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| tmp011007 Diglot Senior Member Congo Joined 5869 days ago 199 posts - 346 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: French, Portuguese
| Message 22 of 22 25 December 2011 at 5:33pm | IP Logged |
Camundonguinho wrote:
Articles are complicated because every language uses them in a different way:
He is a professor. (English, with article)
Ele é professor. (Portuguese, no article)
Pronominal clitics are awkward, and they make look Spanish very stuffy:
Me imagino! (Spanish) I imagine (to) myself
(Eu) imagino! (Brazilian Portuguese) (I) imagine
I can imagine that! (English)
Tú te lo mereces (Spanish) You deserve it to yourself.
Você merece (Brazilian Portuguese) You deserve
You deserve it (English) You deserve it
Dámelo! (Spanish) Give it to me
Me de! (Portuguese) Give me!
In Spanish I get the impression that spekers all do something to themselves and want to use IT with it all the time:
Spain, a country to eat (well):
España, un país para comerselo
Spain, a country yo eat it to yourself
it sounds so ackward, in Portuguese: Espanha, um país de comer (bem) would be more than sufficient.
Also, indirect object:
Estou mandando um abraço para ela (I am sending you my greetings)
in Spanish would be: Estoy mandándole un abrazo a ella, with the redundant LE.
It makes Spanish sentences so stuffy and long, so Spanish speakers have to speak so fast to compensate.
Spoken Brazilian Portuguese as well as spoken Italian has reduced the number of demonstratives from 3 (este, esse, aquele; questo, codesto, quello) to two only:
this (ese; questo) and that (aquele; quello). Two level difference is more than enough!
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just a couple of things:
Me imagino! (Spanish)
or "imagino" ("creo")
Tú te lo mereces (Spanish)
or "lo mereces"
Estoy mandándole un abrazo a ella
or "le mando un abrazo..."
It makes Spanish sentences so stuffy and long, so Spanish speakers have to speak so fast to compensate.
sometimes, but not really.. there are other reasons for the "machine gun" style
1 person has voted this message useful
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