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Are Czech and Slovakian separate langs? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5647 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes  Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 1 of 18 07 February 2012 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Asking for business reasons.
Do I need to get stuff translated into each of these languages, or is one enough? If so, which one? I am pretty sure I have heard that they are virtually the same language, along the lines of the Yugoslavian langs... But wikipedia lists them as being slightly different. Obviously if there are just some minor differences like German and Swiss German or something, then its a waste of money to translated separately. Grateful for response..! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4818 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 2 of 18 07 February 2012 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
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They are separate languages but with high intelligibility. The differences lie mostly
in pronunciation, the grammar is quite similar (but still far from being the same) but only few words have different roots. If you understand one well, you will have no huge trouble with understanding the other but you will not speak it (for exemple I am a native Czech speaker, I fully understand Slovak, slovak friends understand me but if I tried to speak Slovak without any previous study or large amount of immersion, the result would be a funny hybrid and damage to both of the languages). For businesss reasons. If you have anything translated in just one language, both Czechs and Slovaks will understand and usually in such cases Czech is used as the "bigger" language. If your business reason is presentation of a product to czechs and slovaks, the only group where a trouble with misunderstanding might happen are czech teenagers. Most of them don't hear Slovak regularly and may have troubles with it (until they enter a university and get up to one third of slovak classmates). However, if you are targetting customers in Slovakia, it will look much better if you adress them in their language, Slovak. It is their national language and the official language of their own country. So, if you are making translation for both countries, than invest in making both translations. If the translation travels to only one of the countries, than choose the language of the country and have no worries the minority wouldn't undestand. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6965 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 3 of 18 07 February 2012 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
Today they're separate languages roughly along the lines of Bokmål and Swedish as their standards each came from a different dialect (as opposed to BCMS/Serbo-Croatian or the forms of Standarddeutsch whose respective bases are effectively one dialect). I take it that you're not referring to Swiss German or that jumble of Alemannic dialects when you mention "minor differences like German and Swiss German". When it comes to translations today, what you do depends on the situation. What Cavesa describes is pretty much the norm. Even today, it's still common for some international products in Slovak stores to come with just Czech instructions/descripitions along with English or German ones but I've noticed that this is fading a bit. If you were translating/presenting something targeted for only one of the markets and this is known to the audience, then use the respective language. Therefore as a non-Czech/non-Slovak don't present in Slovak when you've intended to deal with only the Czechs all along or vice-versa. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5647 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 4 of 18 07 February 2012 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Great explanation, thanks Cavesa!
Interesting to learn about the language situation in your country, and Slovakia. This is software to be used by employees in a certain retail organisation. All employees have to use the software, including people in low-skilled jobs. And I have just learnt that the software is already available in Czech language. So the question was whether to organise Slovakian as well. I think the right thing to do in this situation is to actually add Slovakian, even though it's a "small" language. The thing is, it's going to be quite expensive to localise the software. And I think there are only about 3 of these shops in Slovakia. Oops just saw Chang's helpful note too. Thanks! And from a bigger angle: There are lots of "little" languages in Eastern Europe, where people in the country in question also speak or understand some other language(s). Latvia is a similar example... It's a high cost of localisation for a very "small" language. Iceland is another example from "Western" lol Europe. But I think the action that is most in line with the company policy is to respect that these are separate languages and that people have a preference for their own mother tongue, even if the other language is intelligible to them. Edited by cordelia0507 on 07 February 2012 at 5:49pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4818 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 5 of 18 07 February 2012 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think in this subject (and not only in it), more appropriate would be the term
Central Europe because most of Europe's "little languages" are located in it. One of its interpretations is the area of former Austria-Hungary Empire. Actually this Empire had nearly destroyed most of these languages. Czech had to be defended from German and Slovak was nearly extinct by Hungarian and similar situation applied to a few other languages. It is one of the reasons why these little languages are valued high in their countries because the independence, both political and linguistic, was not always a commonplace. Slovaks are quite used to having to read in Czech (because of "having a too small language") but some may more sensitive to the topic when it comes to their job software. Your employees would understand Czech version but they will surely appreciate the Slovakian one. The company's policy is a very reasonable one because it shows the employees they are considered important. Speaking of small languages, by wikipedia, Swedish has just as little speakers as Slovak and less than Czech. Does your company have translations both for Swedish and Norwegian/Danish? 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5647 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 6 of 18 07 February 2012 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's a good and relevant question, I think. I should admit that I had just been discussing SloVENIA in the same context and was mixing up the population of Slovenia with SloVAKIA. Slovakia is much bigger. Slovenia is a fair bit smaller. And I have the same question about that. But I decided to place an order for Croatian and Slovenian separately. Apparently Slovenian is quite different from the other ex-Yugoslavian languages. A friend of mine who is Serbian swears that all Slovenians can speak Serbocroatian, but it's a matter of respect etc not to force them to. And about language versions in Scandinavia, there is certainly a difference in software localization for each one of the countries. Swedish is bigger than the other two, but it would not be acceptable to either Denmark or Norway to use Swedish software other than in an emergency. Norwegians are quite used to Swedish but they don't want it forced on them, they want to choose themselves when and how they use Swedish. There is a common trend in translations on instructions and on products etc that the text is written in some kind of hybrid Scandinavian language where only the words that are significantly different are flagged out. Mostly just to save space, I guess. But you see it a lot in supermarkets etc. And an admission: I had school geography before 1990, so I am not quite up to scratch on the details of the countries that weren't around back then. And it's a real shame that the incredibly funky world "Czechoslovakia" had to fall into disuse. I was intrigued by this country as a child, simply because of the name... It's just such a beautiful name! And you would have been a more influential country in Europe if you had stuck together I think, not to mention the fantastic icehockey that this country could play! Oh well.... we are one big union now anyway.... Edited by cordelia0507 on 07 February 2012 at 8:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6965 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 7 of 18 07 February 2012 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
Slovenian differs from BCMS/Serbo-Croatian roughly as much as German from Dutch. Slovenes' degree of competency in BCMS/SC actually varies as I found out when visiting Slovenia a few years ago. In general most Slovenes who grew up in Yugoslavia still have at least moderate passive knowledge of BCMS/SC, not to mention those who work in tourism (I noted that even bus station clerks can usually speak enough BCMS/SC to deal with routine transactions with other ex-Yugoslavs). Yet younger Slovenes have limited ability and would genuinely need Slovenian translations. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4818 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 8 of 18 08 February 2012 at 12:34am | IP Logged | |||||
The country might either be more influential or it could be too focused on it's inner disagreements. And the division came probably just at the right moment because not many neighbouring countries in the world have such great relations (if any). And as two countries, we can have two great icehockey teams at championships instead of just one ;-) Edited by Cavesa on 08 February 2012 at 12:35am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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