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Beginning Russian Advice? | ||
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| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4861 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 9 of 70 09 April 2012 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
But the spelling and the pronunciation are explained in a wrong and nonsense way. And the transcription is stupid and misleading. And it is not very deep. Edited by Марк on 09 April 2012 at 2:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4520 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 10 of 70 09 April 2012 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'll have to disagree. Since you're Russian, you don't know how it is for us foreigners to learn the transliterations by ourselves. It's given me a solid basis, both in terms of learning the alphabet, and especially in the grammar subjects, which are REALLY well explained, with a lot of details. It's VERY deep, if you learn the extras. Since I'm not, nor want to be a linguist, for a "regular" language learner it's the best material for Russian I've come across so far. The cons, as I said, are the lack of exercises and audio, what must be compensated with L-R, or watching movies, etc etc... Edited by fabriciocarraro on 09 April 2012 at 3:39pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6402 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 11 of 70 09 April 2012 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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As for Cyrillics, I'm sure I've seen it taught in the form of a linguistic enigma here http://http://www.learnlangs.com but I can't find it anymore:(
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| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4861 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 12 of 70 09 April 2012 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
You disagree that the transliteration is stupid there? But one and the same phonem is written in different ways. For example soft consonants are marked by Y in several positions, by ' - in other, by nothing - in other. If пя is pya, what is пья? pyya? Why is "y" used for palatalization, if it is already used for [j]? To mislead foreigners? If vowel reduction is marked, why aren't shown its levels? Is a poststressed и a ee sound like in meet? By no means. It is a shirt and unclear sound, fully determined by surrounding consonants. It's written: there is a spelling rule: letters ы, я, ю are not spelled after sibilants and velars, but nothing is said how do we have to PRONOUNCE it. It is described as if Russian was a dead language. ши and ки are entirely different situations, and there is no such rule about the velars. The vowels are spelt after the velars according to the general Russian rules of graphics and reflect the pronunciation, and how will I pronounce ткёт, Гюго, Кяхта etc? And no explanation of pronunciation at all. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4520 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 13 of 70 09 April 2012 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
The ь is always (as far as I remember) put as a little ý on the top, like a ². In the example you gave, пя is trascripted as "pya" and пья as "p²ya" (where ² is a ý, which I don't know how to put right now). About "и" and "ee", how else would you put for a regular language learner? 99% of those who learn Russian are not linguists and are not familiar with fonetic terms. I don't know and don't want to know anything about technical terms like palatalization, verlars, etc. The closest sound in English to the Russian "и" is usually (not always) the "ee" sound. That's how you explain this to a new learner, and here comes the point where I must agree with you. As I said before, there's no audio, therefore as far as pronunciation and listening comprehension are concerned, the course is indeed very poor, and that's exactly why I told people to try Michel Thomas first and then the book, or to search for other audio methods such as L-R, watching movies, etc. In my personal case, I started using "The New Penguin Russian Course" alone, and only after 6 months I went to my university look for Russian classes, and my Russian pronunciation was just as good (and sometimes better) than the other "Level 2" students, so I must give it to "The New Penguin Russian Course". Edited by fabriciocarraro on 09 April 2012 at 5:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4861 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 14 of 70 09 April 2012 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
But it doesn't matter. You cannot leave technical terms because they are needed. Like explaining grammar is impossible without grammar terms. The transcription must be consistent, the textbook must teach correctly. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6402 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 15 of 70 09 April 2012 at 4:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think anyone who's not new to languages knows that i=ai is just an English rule and you can't assume it works for other languages.
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| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4520 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 16 of 70 09 April 2012 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
Well, personally I don't know and don't want to know those technical terms, just like 99% of other people, and as I said, I took the first 12 (not sure) lessons of "The New Penguin Russian Course" just as they are, not learning any technical terms and when I joined the "Level 2" Russian in my university, my pronunciation was just as good or better than the other students'. That proves they're not "needed". I agree that knowing them might be a useful tool, and is a must for linguists, but for a regular language learner like me (and most people) it's definitely not. Again, since the course doesn't have accurate explanations on this matter, listening to Russian through other sources must be a priority. Youtube helps A LOT with that. Edited by fabriciocarraro on 09 April 2012 at 5:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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