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Changes in Spoken Finnish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6944 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 9 of 17 10 May 2012 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
Really? About 2/3 of the time when I hear Finns, I hear nii and mäki instead of niin and mäkin respectively, as examples.
You'd probably sound foreign as I do depending on how little you apply sandhi as observed in native speakers' Finnish. I suspect that you would sound odd if the Finnish audience were assuming that you were a native speaker or had attained fluency. There's some more information on line in English about colloquial Finnish but it's mainly on discussion forums rather than in fact sheets or essays. Every Day Speech Pronunciation in the spoken language Puhekieli - are they lazy or does the kirjekieli not exist? **speaking** literary Finnish Sandhi in Finnish On a related note, you may also find the below interesting: Helsinki slang 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6385 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 10 of 17 10 May 2012 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
also, I think it happens to various consonants clusters, not just with L. can't really think of an example though... Lol at how native speakers fill in those gaps. Listen closely. Also, it often doubles the following consonant, just like there used to be a consonant in the -e words (hence tervehtiä and [tervettuloa]). I especially love those double v's that never happen in the standard language (meil ov varaus - meillä on varaus). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Pisces Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4410 days ago 143 posts - 284 votes Speaks: English*, Finnish*, French, SwedishC1, Esperanto Studies: German, Spanish, Russian | Message 11 of 17 10 May 2012 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, you're right about these examples. I guess I just don't think about it. In the article it says 'This means that the genitive/accusative form -n, which is very common in any form of Finnish, is simply noted by a glottal stop.' I have difficulty thinking of an example where this sounds right. About the sandhi, yes, it is important. Especially, I would say, the doubling of consonants between words, e.g. 'anna minulle'. And the Wikipedia article is confusing with regard to it. And it's not part of colloquial Finnish, really, since it applies also to the written language when spoken. It's really part of Finnish phonology. http://www.finnlectura.fi/verkkosuomi/Fonologia/sivu191.htm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6944 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 12 of 17 10 May 2012 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | |||||
That seems contradictory to me since it begins by stating -n as very common but ends by stating that it's marked by a glottal stop. If it's common everywhere, then why plant the idea that it's indicated by something else? I can't think of this either in genitive. Syön omena or Menen Elina kanssa seem strikingly wrong/ungrammatical comapred to Syön omenan and Menen Elinan kanssa respectively. The only time I can think of this affecting a case ending is in illative. My ears don't pick up the final -n (i.e. makuuhuoneesee rather than makuuhuoneeseen) when the trailer's voice says within a few seconds that Pöysti is crawling to the bedroom. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Pisces Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4410 days ago 143 posts - 284 votes Speaks: English*, Finnish*, French, SwedishC1, Esperanto Studies: German, Spanish, Russian | Message 13 of 17 10 May 2012 at 10:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, and in the sentence "Otan itse', if you replace 'n' with a glottal stop, you get something that is pronounced like the sentence 'Ota itse', which has a glottal stop (or even two, I'm not sure) after 'ota'. (The first sentence means "I['ll] take [it] myself" and the second "take [it] yourself".)
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| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6944 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 14 of 17 10 May 2012 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
But wouldn't that make the sentences ambiguous (at least in isolation)? Colloquially I'd use (mä(ä)) otan ite (instead of (mä(ä)) ota' ite) and ota' ite! That is, I'd find it very weird to omit the -n ending for the verb when trying to convey the 1st person present tense in speech, even if there's a tendency for final -n to be absent. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Pisces Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4410 days ago 143 posts - 284 votes Speaks: English*, Finnish*, French, SwedishC1, Esperanto Studies: German, Spanish, Russian | Message 15 of 17 10 May 2012 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Yes, you're right. That was my point, but I wasn't clear enough. It would become ambiguous, so I don't see how the final -n can be omitted. I don't think it can be.
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| Ellsworth Senior Member United States Joined 4745 days ago 345 posts - 528 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Swedish, Finnish, Icelandic, Irish | Message 16 of 17 11 May 2012 at 12:36am | IP Logged | |||||
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Pisces, it really sounds like it is. I just was watching the movie Elokuu(great movie btw) and I heard it repeatedly. Could it be that it is only a dialect?
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