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Which Scandinavian language do you learn?

 Language Learning Forum : Skandinavisk & Nordisk Post Reply
Poll Question: Which Nordic language are you learning?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
42 [38.53%]
17 [15.60%]
38 [34.86%]
10 [9.17%]
2 [1.83%]
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42 messages over 6 pages: 1 2 35 6  Next >>
Medulin
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Croatia
Joined 2858 days ago

1199 posts - 2192 votes 
Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali

 
 Message 25 of 42
29 January 2013 at 12:33am | IP Logged 
I'm studying both Nynorsk and Bokmaal. I can't say Nynorsk is any more difficult than Bokmaal, they're just different. Some verbs which are regular in Bokmaal are irregular in Nynorsk (and vice versa). Once you've learned Nynorsk, the transition from Nynorsk to conservative Bokmaal is a piece of cake. You just substitute Nynorsk and Samnorsk forms with Riksmaal/moderate Bokmaal forms and discard the feminine gender (except for a handful of words like jenta, katta, kua, hytta...)

I've noticed that many people from Oslo label every Nynorsk-sounding dialect as Nynorsk.
Martin Blomvik and Fjellfolk sang in their respective Western dialects last week at Melodie Grand Prix, yet the Oslo-based press stated they had sung ''in Nynorsk''.

Uvular R works better in Nynorsk than in Bokmaal (because the standard Southeastern Norwegian /spoken form of Bokmaal does not use it). On NRK, uvular R is rare among newscasters using Bokmaal, but is predominant in Nynorsk-newscasters (like Ingvild Bryn).


Edited by Medulin on 29 January 2013 at 12:39am

2 persons have voted this message useful



NorwegianNYC
Triglot
Newbie
United States
Joined 2529 days ago

10 posts - 20 votes
Speaks: English, Norwegian*, German

 
 Message 26 of 42
30 January 2013 at 4:21pm | IP Logged 
The problem with Nynorsk is that its creator, Ivar Aasen, did not include Eastern
dialects in his proposed 'purified' Norwegian. This was a grave mistake since he
effectively excluded half the population at the time (and an even greater percentage
today). Aasen believed Eastern Norwegian was too 'polluted' with Danish/Swedish, but
truth is that Eastern Norwegian was never a Western Scandinavian language. It has
always been closer to Swedish et al. than to the Western dialect groups (which at one
point also includes the forerunners of Faroese and Icelandic).

I master both forms, but I have no problem understanding the Eastern sentiments against
it. It is in a way like trying to teach Londoners Scots because it is 'purer' English.

When it comes to the Uvular R - it is probably more among Bokmål than Nynorsk speakers.
The major cities, such as Bergen, Stavanger and Kristiansand (and minor cities such as
Haugesund, Egersund, Arendal and others) are all in Bokmål-territory.
3 persons have voted this message useful



Medulin
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Croatia
Joined 2858 days ago

1199 posts - 2192 votes 
Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali

 
 Message 27 of 42
30 January 2013 at 10:26pm | IP Logged 
People in Stavanger and Haugesund etc don't speak Bokmaal, but their local dialect.
Especially in Stavanger, the local dialect is practically 90% Nynorsk.

Why are Stavanger and Haugesund so Nynorsk-hating (unlike Bergen which is officially ''neutral'', Stavanger and Haugesund not)?

Freud has an answer,
it's called:
''Narcissism of small differences.''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences

Differences between the Bergen dialect and Nynorsk are large enough for people in Bergen not to see Nynorsk as a threat (as in ''Nynorsk may swallow their dialect'').
Although some right wing parties tried to get rid of compulsory Nynorsk last week:
http://framtida.no/articles/nei-til-valfritt-sidemal-i-berge n#.UQmRYvL8E2t

http://framtida.no/articles/nei-til-valfritt-sidemal-i-berge n#.UQmRYvL8E2t

Bergens Tidende is Norway's largest Nynorsk newspaper in terms of numbers of Nynorsk-articles published (even though it's mixed: 66% Bokmal and 33% Nynorsk).

I don't think '''samnorsksk/bokmålsk Nynorsk'' sounds very (South)Western, it sounds as if it were written by Oslo-people who learned it at school:

Southwestern Nynorsk: eg likar / skulen / Skal me dansa?
samnorsksk/bokmålsk Nynorsk': eg liker / skolen / Skal vi danse?


Just like many L1 users of Bokmål don't like seeing things like ''sjukehusa'' or ''har kasta''
in a Bokmål text, many L1 users of Nynorsk don't like seeing ''vi liker ''or ''skolen''
in Nynorsk texts.

The Samnorsk campaign has created more harm than good in both Norwegian varieties, by introducing Southwestern Nynorsk words into Bokmaal,
and by introducing Southeastern Bokmaal words into Nynorsk.

Edited by Medulin on 30 January 2013 at 10:56pm

4 persons have voted this message useful



NorwegianNYC
Triglot
Newbie
United States
Joined 2529 days ago

10 posts - 20 votes
Speaks: English, Norwegian*, German

 
 Message 28 of 42
31 January 2013 at 5:49am | IP Logged 
Well, the simple answer is that no one SPEAKS either nynorsk or bokmål. Norwegian does
not have a spoken standard. When I am referring to Bokmål and Nynorsk, I am referring
to their standard of writing. Actually, the lack of a spoken standard, or even a more
prestigious dialect, has left Norwegian with an interesting conundrum, since everyone
who speaks it, speaks it correctly, regardless of HOW they speak it.

Riksmål, Høgnorsk and Samnorsk are not official forms in Norway. Nor have they ever
been. The question of how close to either Bokmål or Nynorsk a dialect is, is a
difficult one. A 120 years ago, the Bergen dialect was considered 'proper', and closer
to the written standard of the time. Since then, including an interlude where the
Southern dialects were en vogue, the Bokmål has become increasingly influenced by
Eastern Norwegian dialects. The reason Norwegian today has retained (or regained?) a 3-
gender system is largely because this is a feature of Eastern Norwegian, and Eastern
Norway has the largest population.

In short - the main problem with Nynorsk is that is is less flexible than Bokmål.
Bokmål is actually a fairly descriptive standard, unlike Nynorsk, which is based on a
normative approach. The reason Nynorsk never made it to the cities is not because of
the dialects actually spoken there, but because cities are melting pots and less
conform. In Bokmål, you can write "en jakke - jakka", because the majority of
Norwegians do not use the Feminine article, but the use the Feminine as gender (with
the very valid exception of Bergen and parts of the South). Nynorsk does not make a
similar allowance, and is therefore perceived as "quaint" and "old-fashioned".

When it comes to the (hypothetical) Samnorsk, Bokmål has actually moved further in that
direction than Nynorsk has. 100 years ago, the Bokmål of 2013 would absolutely have
looked like Samnorsk - with 3 genders, post-positioned possessives, 'sin'-genitive and
diphthongs.
2 persons have voted this message useful



tractor
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 3643 days ago

1349 posts - 2292 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan
Studies: French, German, Latin

 
 Message 29 of 42
01 February 2013 at 12:27am | IP Logged 
Ivar Aasen actually did include Eastern dialects. Around 1850 the written language in Norway was still Danish, most
people still lived in the countryside and they did not speak Standard Østnorsk. The biggest challenges Nynorsk met
were: 1) The urban elites hated it from the very start; 2) The emerging working class didn't care and the labour
movement preferred the Bokmål/Samnorsk approach.
2 persons have voted this message useful



NorwegianNYC
Triglot
Newbie
United States
Joined 2529 days ago

10 posts - 20 votes
Speaks: English, Norwegian*, German

 
 Message 30 of 42
01 February 2013 at 6:30pm | IP Logged 
tractor wrote:
Ivar Aasen actually did include Eastern dialects. Around 1850 the
written language in Norway was still Danish, most people still lived in the countryside
and they did not speak Standard Østnorsk.
Somewhat - but not entirely. He did
indeed include a few Eastern dialects, but he stated himself that places like
Hardanger, Sogn and Voss, as well as the mountain valleys of the South, had the more
GENUINE dialects - i.e. they were less 'polluted'. Central Eastern, South-Eastern and
town/city dialects were considered 'impure'. Since this coincided with the budding
urbanization in Norway, Nynorsk from the getgo effectively shut out city dweller. This
was perhaps Aasen's cardinal mistake.
tractor wrote:
The biggest challenges Nynorsk
met were: 1) The urban elites hated it from the very start; 2) The emerging working
class didn't care and the labour movement preferred the Bokmål/Samnorsk approach.
No - it was not because of that - this was a consequence. Nynorsk was not
shunned by the city elite in particular (they were probably more nationalistic, thus
positive, than the lower classes). It goes back to the two main problems Nynorsk faced
from the start - it did not include the dialects of the major population centers, and
Aasen was not fond of phonetic orthography. The result being a language that was
increasingly alien to (especially) people in Eastern and South-Eastern Norway, whose
original dialects did not stem from West Scandinavian, but from the same stock as
Swedish (East Scandinavian). Also - the labor movement preferred Bokmål, because the it
was predominantly a city phenomenon.
Ivar Aasen was genious -no doubt - but if he had only been a little less obsessed with
the "purity" of quaint Western Norwegian dialects, and a little more in sync with how
people actually spoke, Nynorsk would have been the written norm in Norway today.

Edited by NorwegianNYC on 01 February 2013 at 6:30pm

2 persons have voted this message useful



IlonaS
Bilingual Diglot
Newbie
Russian Federation
Joined 2113 days ago

25 posts - 33 votes
Speaks: Russian*, Estonian*
Studies: Dutch, Norwegian, French, English

 
 Message 31 of 42
28 February 2014 at 4:23am | IP Logged 
Norwegian! Most beautiful Scandinavian language!
I do not like the Danish pronunciation.
1 person has voted this message useful



Lizzern
Diglot
Senior Member
Norway
Joined 4099 days ago

791 posts - 1053 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, English
Studies: Japanese

 
 Message 32 of 42
28 February 2014 at 4:27pm | IP Logged 
Medulin wrote:
People in Stavanger and Haugesund etc don't speak Bokmaal, but their local dialect.
Especially in Stavanger, the local dialect is practically 90% Nynorsk.

Why are Stavanger and Haugesund so Nynorsk-hating (unlike Bergen which is officially ''neutral'', Stavanger and Haugesund not)?

Freud has an answer,
it's called:
''Narcissism of small differences.''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences


Old thread but... I'm from the Stavanger area so maybe I can answer this. Most people don't hate nynorsk, but a lot of people find it kind of annoying. We had compulsory classes in school for a while, and it was clunky and unnatural for us to read and (especially) write nynorsk, and we were all happy when we were done and could go back to just using bokmål like we'd always done. There's also quite a bit of vocabulary that sounds very strange to our ears.

None of us would say "I speak nynorsk" because we just don't, even though many of the words are the same. There might be a dialect out there that's the same as nynorsk, but Stavangersk is not it. A dialect is a dialect, the written language is a separate thing, this is part of our mentality - but there's no need to read more into it on the psychological side (the narcissism comment was factually off imo).

I don't think anyone in the area feels threatened by nynorsk - we have no reason to be, it's not swallowing anything - but I do know a lot of people who are annoyed by it to some degree because we have no choice in whether or not we need to use it. I don't like having to read it but I will if I'm interested enough in the material. And I would refuse to write it if I was ever asked, simply because I would have to pull out the dictionary and look up everything, just like I did in school.

Liz


1 person has voted this message useful



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