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Lopsided proficiency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| jtmc18 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7056 days ago 119 posts - 140 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 1 of 21 17 November 2012 at 12:18am | IP Logged | ||
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So here I am in Guatemala... I´ve come to refresh my Spanish after a summer of mostly passive practice (books, telenovelas, etc.). I enrolled in one-on-one classes and, for the most part, there isn´t a whole lot of new material to learn. In fact, the teachers have told me I´m the most proficient gringo they´ve had... I guess a total of 35 weeks of one-on-one classes over the years plus an extended stay in Mexico has paid off. I still make mistakes, and it drives me crazy, but I can hold a conversation about almost anything, read novels without dictionaries and understand most anything, including a good deal of slang. I would call myself proficient EXCEPT...
I can´t order a taco. I mean, it´s easier to discuss politics than it is for me to go into a restaurant and order something. Sounds ridiculous, right? OK, so maybe it´s an exaggeration but I feel like my Spanish fails me at the most crucial moments. I know what to say but often it just doesn´t come out right. My spontaneous speech is weak, whereas two hours into a conversation I´m fairly decent. I started learning Spanish through classes and never used any program like Pimsleur or Assimil for the basics. What do you think? Would it be a good investment of time to use these programs, even knowing the language to a high degree, just to improve my spontaneous basic proficiency? I thought about memorizing the Assimil dialogues and practicing again and again to eliminate certain recurrent mistakes in my speech... and I thought that maybe Pimsleur would ingrain certain phrases that were not part of my Spanish I class eight years ago. Has anyone ever tried these techniques as an advanced student? The idea, of course, isn´t to learn but rather to reinforce. Your thoughts are appreciated... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 4941 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 2 of 21 17 November 2012 at 12:58am | IP Logged | ||
In my opinion, going through Pimsleur or Assimil will be a waste of time. The best thing you can do is go out and start ordering tacos. You're in Guatemala, after all. There's no better way than to get direct exposure in the areas you're weak. R. == 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| sctroyenne Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5202 days ago 739 posts - 1312 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Irish | Message 3 of 21 17 November 2012 at 1:34am | IP Logged | ||
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My proficiency goes way down when talking to service employees though I think it's from
residual anxiety I had from when I was a kid having to order things. I'm still awful with phone conversations as well, partially due to anxiety and partially due to distortion if speaking on a cell phone. If the problem is linguistic, as in you become lost in the transaction, then simply working on those set phrases should do the trick. It seems you already have the conversational basics down, which Pimsleur and Assimil would focus on, it seems what you need is to just go through a phrase book. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6408 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 4 of 21 17 November 2012 at 3:18am | IP Logged | ||
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I recommend Destinos. It's interesting enough even if you understand everything, and there are tons of useful phrases/expressions in perfectly natural and interesting contexts.
http://www.learner.org/resources/series75.html This site also has videos of real life episodes: http://langmedia.fivecolleges.edu/collection/lm_spanish.html
Especially as you're now in Guatemala, make sure to think in Spanish in between those. When you're back in the US it might be more practical to just think in Spanish when you know in advance that you'll get to speak it. You can read, but DO you read? and do you watch TV? I've used Assimil Finnish successfully at a slightly lower level. Just do some shadowing (provided you understand the content). I don't recommend Pimsleur at your level, it has too much English and it's too basic. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5241 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 5 of 21 17 November 2012 at 7:02am | IP Logged | ||
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The classic problem here is that you have not learned real conversational Spanish. This happens all the time. People can talk about all sorts of sophisticated topics but cannot talk over the phone or interact with a waiter in a restaurant.
What's the solution? Learn spontaneous speech. I know it sounds simple, but it is. Learn to chitchat in Spanish. Your one-on-one teachers should be able to help you with that. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6408 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 6 of 21 17 November 2012 at 11:47am | IP Logged | ||
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This sort of problem is already a result of taking too many classes.
3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4468 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 7 of 21 17 November 2012 at 5:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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I had very similar problem years ago, with my German. My problem was not the language itself or lack of skills - using formal register and literal language you learn in classes may sound funny, but gets things done - but my self-consciousness. I was horrified to make errors, spent too much time polishing the sentence that this put any conversation on hold.
The only solution was to put pressure on myself and to start to speak with "real" people. I mean people in shops, using the TL in office when possible etc., any people outside the controlled classroom setting. Allow yourself to sound funny and make mistakes for short time. With a little practice, this awful phase will be over very quickly. Use some time in the evenings to review the conversations - look where you had problems and correct yourself. It will help you to trust in your own abilities... Edited by Majka on 17 November 2012 at 8:01pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4361 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 8 of 21 17 November 2012 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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I definitely wouldn't recommend Pimsleur; I just went through its 4th level after my
library stocked it. I knew I wouldn't learn anything from it, but I figured it couldn't hurt and might help to improve my spoken fluidity and automaticity. But after having done it I feel that it was a complete waste of time, and I think it might have actually reduced the speed of my speech. I also wouldn't recommend Assimil unless you specifically want to gain greater familiarity with Peninsular Spanish. I have been listening to the recordings for this reason; the dialogues are very distinctively and strongly Peninsular, not at all "neutral" or "international." What I would recommend (in terms of a program, the advice you got to simply get out there and order tacos, have small talk, etc. is primary) are the audio files for FSI Basic Spanish: http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Spanish%20B asic These are native-speed dialogues and speaking drills, and are more intensive and effective than anything I've yet come across for building or perfecting fluidity and automaticity. They're old (early 60's) but the language they use is FAR closer to what you will hear in the US or in Latin America than what's on the most recent Assimil. Edited by Gala on 17 November 2012 at 7:09pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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