Lopsided proficiency (Advice Center) Language Learning Forum

Lopsided proficiency
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21 messages over 3 pages: 1 2 3

Gala
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4361 days ago
229 posts - 421 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Italian

Message 17 of 21

20 November 2012 at 4:58pm | IP Logged

jtmc18 wrote:

Perhaps I'll give my copy of Assimil to someone else... I received it last month and
brought it with me, but agree that it is very Peninsular... in fact, some of it seems
incorrect to me, such as "he ido a coger setas esta manana"... if I said that here I'd
get laughed out of the building, not to mention corrected for the use of the present
perfect. Maybe that's said in Spain, but it's not the Spanish I've been hearing all
these years. So I guess FSI it is.

I recently started a thread on the (to me bizarre) way the present perfect is used in
Assimil. There were some interesting responses from native speakers of the Spanish of
Spain:

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?T ID=33877&PN=1
1 person has voted this message useful

Bao
Diglot
Senior Member
Germany
tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5
Joined 5577 days ago
2256 posts - 4046 votes

Speaks: German*, English
Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin

Message 18 of 21

20 November 2012 at 8:47pm | IP Logged

Majka wrote:

Let me tell you - I had to learn to function in my native language. I had problem talking with people I didn't know, meaning I had procrastinated as often as I could even when I had to make a phone call.
I went for the shock method and did put myself in position where I had to interact with people and survive being "on stage" or loose my job. And somehow, this was easier for me than doing the same in private.

Working my way out of what used to be disabling social phobia, I made the experience that there's sursprisingly little spill-over effect between different social situations for me. Any kind of novel situation is a challenge, and the only thing that helps me is the knowledge that I managed to deal with many, many novel situations already, so with some practice I will also learn to deal with the new situation at hand. Still, I tend to be very nervous, which makes me mess up in quite unique ways.

jtmc18, please bear in mind that FSI may help to a certain degree, but it can't replace practice in the actual setting.
3 persons have voted this message useful

hrhenry
Octoglot
Senior Member
United States
languagehopper.blogs
Joined 4941 days ago
1871 posts - 3642 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish^C2, Italian^C2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese
Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe

Message 19 of 21

20 November 2012 at 9:53pm | IP Logged

Bao wrote:

jtmc18, please bear in mind that FSI may help to a certain degree, but it can't replace
practice in the actual setting.

This can't be overstated. He's in the right place for it, and it'd be a shame if this
opportunity were missed.

Of the times I've lived abroad, upon returning I've never said to myself "Damn. I wished
I'd done another self-study course."

4 persons have voted this message useful

justonelanguage
Diglot
Groupie
United States
Joined 4273 days ago
98 posts - 128 votes

Speaks: English, Spanish

Message 20 of 21

24 November 2012 at 1:55am | IP Logged

Just as others have said, you should just confront your fears and get more experience in spontaneous conversation. I'm curious what other non-native Spanish speakers think about this: I kind of just "copy" or "imitate" natives so that my sentences sound better.

How long was the extended stay in Mexico? And how would you order a taco?

For me, it would be like, "Hola, voy a pedir el número tres con agua/leche/lo que sea" or "me das tres tacos con...." or "Buenas, puedo tener el...."

Do you have native Spanish speaking friends to ask if you have a question about grammar, slang, or just to ask if something sounds right? Good luck.

jtmc18 wrote:

So here I am in Guatemala... I´ve come to refresh my Spanish after a summer of mostly passive practice (books, telenovelas, etc.). I enrolled in one-on-one classes and, for the most part, there isn´t a whole lot of new material to learn. In fact, the teachers have told me I´m the most proficient gringo they´ve had... I guess a total of 35 weeks of one-on-one classes over the years plus an extended stay in Mexico has paid off. I still make mistakes, and it drives me crazy, but I can hold a conversation about almost anything, read novels without dictionaries and understand most anything, including a good deal of slang. I would call myself proficient EXCEPT...

I can´t order a taco. I mean, it´s easier to discuss politics than it is for me to go into a restaurant and order something. Sounds ridiculous, right? OK, so maybe it´s an exaggeration but I feel like my Spanish fails me at the most crucial moments. I know what to say but often it just doesn´t come out right. My spontaneous speech is weak, whereas two hours into a conversation I´m fairly decent.

I started learning Spanish through classes and never used any program like Pimsleur or Assimil for the basics. What do you think? Would it be a good investment of time to use these programs, even knowing the language to a high degree, just to improve my spontaneous basic proficiency? I thought about memorizing the Assimil dialogues and practicing again and again to eliminate certain recurrent mistakes in my speech... and I thought that maybe Pimsleur would ingrain certain phrases that were not part of my Spanish I class eight years ago. Has anyone ever tried these techniques as an advanced student? The idea, of course, isn´t to learn but rather to reinforce. Your thoughts are appreciated...

1 person has voted this message useful

Bao
Diglot
Senior Member
Germany
tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5
Joined 5577 days ago
2256 posts - 4046 votes

Speaks: German*, English
Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin

Message 21 of 21

24 November 2012 at 2:22am | IP Logged

justonelanguage wrote:

When I'm at a loss I just look helpless and point at things and have them help me out with the right expression. And then I repeat it and say how grateful I am, and make sure to repeat it to myself so that I never forget that expression again. \:D/

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