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IMMERSION - multiple language learning? | ||
Tags: Immersion | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6515 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 17 of 28 27 August 2013 at 10:07am | IP Logged | |||||
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One added problem is that truly bi- or multilingual places may have problems with animosity between different groups. This can take different forms, but often the cause of the clash between those groups will be a former occupation or changes in borders which didn't take the local populations into account. Or it could be an ongoing immigration process which treaten the status of the original population. The Baltic states are good examples of this, but also places like Kosovo/a where the grievances have led to actual war. Or Belgium...
A apparently bilingual place can also be monolingual with just some concessions to a formerly spoken language, like Dublin or Valencia, which have bilingual street signs and public announcements, but a heavily skewed population. In all these places you may find sympathetic speakers of the languages which are under pressure, but you may also use the 'wrong' language and face contempt or direct hostility, and even members of the pressured language group may be suspicious about your intentions. Personally I prefer to visit places where the dominant language is the one I try to learn, and where the whole ambiance is vibrant with that language. Unfortunately that leaves me with a number of languages which I only can speak on conferences (Esperanto) or not at all (Platt). So essentially I find that the - at a first glance - sympathetic thought about plurilingual immersion turns out the be a fata morgana - it can't function unless you stay for so long in a place that you become a known figure in those groups whose languages you try to learn. Edited by Iversen on 27 August 2013 at 10:09am 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4640 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 18 of 28 27 August 2013 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Is there really nowhere that speaks Platt? I thought there would be at least enclaves.
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| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4821 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 19 of 28 28 August 2013 at 2:04am | IP Logged | |||||
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Perhaps a local retirement home somewhere in northern Germany?
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| BlaBla Triglot Groupie Spain Joined 3941 days ago 45 posts - 72 votes Speaks: German*, English, French Studies: Nepali, Spanish, Dutch, Mandarin | Message 20 of 28 28 August 2013 at 11:11am | IP Logged | |||||
Moin, moin :) you bet there are; actually not just enclaves but Platt is spoken in wide parts of rural northern Germany. I spent my college years up there, some of them in East Frisia and there Platt is alive, kicking and tons of fun to speak. My grandmother (90) grew up in northeastern Germany and while her Platt differs somewhat from the East Frisian variant it's not that different. Just think of American and British English. Here's a link to the real deal: Saterländisch (Salteersk) (in German): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saterl%C3%A4ndisch Enjoy ... Edited by BlaBla on 28 August 2013 at 11:12am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4480 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 21 of 28 28 August 2013 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Oslo, Prague, Long Beach / LA
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| Alanjazz Triglot Groupie United States Joined 4627 days ago 65 posts - 129 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, French Studies: Portuguese | Message 22 of 28 01 September 2013 at 7:44am | IP Logged | |||||
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Andorra (Catalan/Spanish/French)
India (Hindi/Marathi/Tamil/.../English) South Africa (Zulu, Xhosa, Afrikaans...) Lebanon (Arabic/French/English) Algeria (Arabic/French/Berber) Malta (Maltese/Italian/English/Arabic) Ethiopia (Amharic/Oromo/locals) Switzerland (German/French/Italian) Northern Italy (Italian/French/Wolof/German) Of course there are many, many others, and very few countries if any are completely monolingual. US Los Angeles (Russian/Spanish/Korean) Minneapolis (Spanish/Somali/Hmong) New York (Cantonese/Spanish/Italian) Chicago (Polish/Spanish/Greek) San Francisco (Cantonese/Mandarin/Vietnamese/Spanish) Miami (Haitian Creole/Spanish/French) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4640 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 23 of 28 01 September 2013 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
Moin moin :-) How long ago were you at college though? (You don't have to answer that. :-) ). I thought (perhaps elsewhere), Iversen implied it was not as healthy as it once was, even a small number of decades ago. However, I've just re-read his last post, and he was talking about preferring to immerse himself in the dominant language, and perhaps that wouldn't be Platt, even in areas where it is still spoken. The one time I have been to East Frisia (? 10 years ago?) a young man I spoke to said proudly "wir sprechen hier Platt", but he only spoke to me in Hochdeutsch (wisely since I would probably not have understood full-blown Platt). We had taken the ferry from Harwich to Cuxhaven, then cycled west along the coast, in the shadow of the dykes. Would love to do it again, although will not be able to do it exactly like that, as that ferry no longer runs. (Would have to via the Hoek and the NL, also very interesting, but a lot of cycling before I got to German East Frisia. :-) ) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4345 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 24 of 28 01 September 2013 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
My parents-in-law speak it how are in their fifties, their children mostly don't, but learnt to understand it from the parents when they used it at home. I am going to my wife's grandmother's 80th birthday next weekend and I am sure there will be a lot of Platt about, especially once the schnapps starts flowing. They live in Sudlohn, a small village near the Dutch border, just about here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/51.9506/6.8407 My brother-in-law, who's in his 20s and a farmer in the area speaks Platt. My wife says he has to or he wouldn't be regarded as part of the social group with other farmers in the area. Some people in the village also speak Platt, but my understanding is it stronger amongst the farming community - who naturally see themselves as a distinct social class apart from from those who live in the village. My wife says they used to have Platt reading competitions in her school to keep the language alive. She also thinks there is a theater group in Hamburg that puts on Platt plays. Edited by patrickwilken on 01 September 2013 at 2:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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