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Most logical languages

 Language Learning Forum : General discussion Post Reply
143 messages over 18 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 10 ... 17 18 Next >>
Martien
Heptaglot
Senior Member
Netherlands
martienvanwanrooij.n
Joined 5508 days ago

134 posts - 148 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, German, Spanish, Turkish, Italian, French
Studies: Portuguese, Serbo-Croatian, Latin, Swedish, Arabic (Written)

 
 Message 73 of 143
22 August 2010 at 6:17pm | IP Logged 
I think you'r right hgudus, there won't be a complete logic in languages. In Dutch there was a kind of humoristic poem, an attempt to adapt it to English would be: mouse / mice so the plural of house is hice :) . In Turkish you could not make such jokes very easily, however...   so the plural of "ben" is "biz" , the plural of "maden" should be "madiz" :)
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staf250
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Belgium
emmerick.be
Joined 4100 days ago

352 posts - 414 votes 
Speaks: French, Dutch*, Italian, English, German
Studies: Arabic (Written)

 
 Message 74 of 143
22 August 2010 at 6:20pm | IP Logged 
Martien wrote:
I invented a mnemonic that works for Dutch anyway , since the words are kalmak,
vermek, bilmek, varmak, bulmak, gelmek, almak, olmak, sanmak, durmak, vurmak I remembered for the first
seven of them the Dutch words kalverbil ("a calf's leg") warboel(pronounced almost the same as Turkish
var-bul, meaning "a mess") and gelal (nonsensical talking, e.g. by a drunk person) so I only had to remember
ol-san-dur-vur :)
Interesting! I also find Turkish a logical language
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galindo
Bilingual Triglot
Senior Member
United States
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142 posts - 248 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish*, Japanese
Studies: Korean, Portuguese

 
 Message 75 of 143
23 August 2010 at 9:17pm | IP Logged 
Hmm, this thread makes me want to learn Turkish after Japanese. I had been interested in it before, but there are just so many more materials and media for Japanese that I chose that instead. I think I'll get around to it eventually.

I think that Japanese is definitely a contender for one of the logical languages. I only have two to compare it to, though. I like the particle markers that make it obvious what part of speech everything is, and the SOV order suits me for some reason. It doesn't seem to have as many unnecessary things like gendered nouns, conjugations for number and person, plurals, and articles.

I don't know why people make a fuss about kanji, when really it's just a part of learning vocabulary, and actually makes it a lot easier to see how words are related to each other. I find it surprising how many people try to learn a bunch of kanji individually and then memorize the readings, when it's pretty simple to just learn them as you learn words. The readings come naturally after that, and then when you see a new word that has kanji you already know, you will be able to read it.

Edited by galindo on 24 August 2010 at 1:57am

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Andrew C
Diglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
naturalarabic.com
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205 posts - 350 votes 
Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written)

 
 Message 76 of 143
03 October 2010 at 11:05pm | IP Logged 
I vote for Arabic (MSA and classical);

100% phonetic (except for about 10 words).
100% regular word structure - so e.g. you know just from the structure of a word if it's a noun or verb (provided short vowels shown).
100% regular verb conjugation (except form I verbs where just the middle vowel needs learning by heart).
Only two tenses - present and past. Future is a one letter prefix to the present tense.
And lots more things like that.





Edited by Andrew C on 03 October 2010 at 11:06pm

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chucknorrisman
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3851 days ago

321 posts - 435 votes 
Speaks: Korean*, English, Spanish
Studies: Russian, Mandarin, Lithuanian, French

 
 Message 77 of 143
05 October 2010 at 1:50am | IP Logged 
Korean is a quite logical language in my opinion, both in terms of the grammar and the alphabet. But being a native speaker I am biased, so what say you, learners of it?

Edited by chucknorrisman on 05 October 2010 at 1:50am

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Mikael84
Bilingual Pentaglot
Groupie
Peru
Joined 3703 days ago

76 posts - 116 votes 
Speaks: French*, Finnish*, English, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Arabic (classical), German, Russian

 
 Message 78 of 143
11 October 2010 at 7:46am | IP Logged 
I don't understand those people who mention MSA/classical Arabic. It is certainly the least logical language I have studied. It seems everything is irregular, nouns, verbs, everything.

Just a few examples: plurals of nouns (although sometimes you can guess the plural it is better to learn them by heart), numbers (from 3 to 10 if the noun is masculine then the number is feminine and the noun is plural with indirect case, however after 10 it is singular with direct case, etc etc crazy stuff), feminine/masculine (if the subject is a plural of a thing then the verb is singular feminine.. why?!!, if the verb is placed before the subject and the subject is plural then the verb stays singular, etc etc), tons of irregular verbs outside of the 10 regular schemes (qala, da3aa, baqiya, etc).

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Cainntear
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Senior Member
Scotland
linguafrankly.blogsp
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Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic
Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh

 
 Message 79 of 143
11 October 2010 at 12:46pm | IP Logged 
The most logical language would be the least logical language, paradoxical though that may be.

Human thought is not a mere expression of axiom logic. My father always quotes one of his university lecturers back in the 60s: "human beings don't think logically, they think psychologically."

Our languages are illogical because they are evolved to suit the peculiarities of human consciousness.

It would therefore be illogical to try to promote a logical language, as it would actually be harder than what we've got.
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Andrew C
Diglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
naturalarabic.com
Joined 3593 days ago

205 posts - 350 votes 
Speaks: English*, Arabic (Written)

 
 Message 80 of 143
11 October 2010 at 4:36pm | IP Logged 
Mikael84 wrote:
I don't understand those people who mention MSA/classical Arabic. It is certainly the least logical language I have studied. It seems everything is irregular, nouns, verbs, everything.

Just a few examples: plurals of nouns (although sometimes you can guess the plural it is better to learn them by heart), numbers (from 3 to 10 if the noun is masculine then the number is feminine and the noun is plural with indirect case, however after 10 it is singular with direct case, etc etc crazy stuff), feminine/masculine (if the subject is a plural of a thing then the verb is singular feminine.. why?!!, if the verb is placed before the subject and the subject is plural then the verb stays singular, etc etc), tons of irregular verbs outside of the 10 regular schemes (qala, da3aa, baqiya, etc).


Arabic may appear illogical at first, but the more you study it the more logical it becomes. I'm talking about the internal logic of the language, not its adhering to preconceived ideas of logic (for example saying that a plural should be formed by adding a simple suffix to the singular).

Yes, Arabic plurals are irregular, but when (as in Arabic) the plurals are ALL irregular and you just have to get used to learning them individually, that is actually a regularity.

The numbers are horribly complicated, but they are still regular, once you know the rules.

The verbs you mentioned are not irregular. There are logical rules governing the conjugation of all of them. There are no irregular verbs in Arabic, except for the middle vowel of form I verbs. But even in this latter case if you accept that this is something that always needs to be learned by heart, it becomes a regularity.







Edited by Andrew C on 11 October 2010 at 4:37pm



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