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A dead honest language CV... | ||
Tags: Curriculum Vitae (CV) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| cacue23 Triglot Groupie Canada Joined 4089 days ago 89 posts - 122 votes  Speaks: Shanghainese, Mandarin*, English Studies: Cantonese | Message 81 of 104 06 November 2013 at 4:05am | IP Logged | ||||||||
You could definitely be the Sun Goddess if you want to. :-D 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5220 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 82 of 104 06 November 2013 at 5:15am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Let's recognize that in many places in the world and organizations, you don't need to be tested if you can demonstrate certain language skills in an interview. But, as we all know, there is an entire industry devoted to language testing. The biggest component of this industry is probably the testing of English. Why does this industry exist if there seems to be little need for language tests? Let's take the example of where I live in Quebec, Canada, If you are a hot-shot programmer with no university training from Russia but with basic English you could probably get hired with one of our video game companies without a language test and on a termporary worker visa.. But wait a minute, if you want to immigrate to Quebec as a permanent resident, you will have to sit a French test, the TEFAQ. Let's say you want to work in one of the regulated professions such as nursing, law, medicine, etc., you have to pass an industry-specific exam with the Office québécois de la langue française. Maybe you want to work with the Quebec government, you'll have to pass a language test if you are not a native speaker of French. Ditto with any of the state-owned companies such as Hydro-Québec. Now, you want to further your education, if you apply to any of the six university schools in Montreal and your previous education is in neither French or English you will have to pass the TEF or IELTS. And finally, you want a cushy job with the federal government, and that job is designated bilingual. You will have to sit an exam that can be quite challenging. I can't speak for Japan, but I am quite sure that if you want to practice many professions in Europe, you have to demonstrate language skills. I would think that to be admitted most universities in Europe some specific language requirements have to be met. And what about working in the various EU institutions? As for the "We don't care about your university diplomas" attitude of many companies, the situation may be different in Europe, but in North America a university degree, preferably from a better university, is still better to have than none. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6699 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 83 of 104 06 November 2013 at 7:49am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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You're talking about Quebec, and about moving there as a permanent resident. Nobody is arguing against that a permanent resident should know the local language (to some extent, basic fluency?), but if you have to sit a test depends a lot on what you're going to do in the country.
I know people who have moved to other countries and worked/studied for long periods. OK, with some rare exceptions it has always been Anglophone countries, but I doubt that anyone of them have ever been "tested". Can they fill in the application form? Can they give intelligent responses during the interview? If so, that's usually enough. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Julie Heptaglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6693 days ago 1251 posts - 1733 votes 5 sounds Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, GermanC2, SpanishB2, Dutch, Swedish, French | Message 84 of 104 06 November 2013 at 10:55am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Obviously I am writing mostly about the situation in Europe. However, I do think that Quebec with its language policy is not exactly that representative of the North American situation (correct me if I am wrong).
The language testing industry exists for some reasons indeed, the panic of young graduates ("my friends has a C1 certificate in X language, I have to get one too or I won't find a good job") being one of them. I focused on the importance of ceritificates in the professional career - the admission university criteria and the criteria for permanent residency are a different thing. Still, there are actually quite many universities in Europe, including very good ones, which don't require language certificates: they either organize their own tests or use e.g. the results from A-levels. If I am not mistaken, you do not need language certificates to work for the EU institutions. You do need language skills, obviously, but the institutions organize their own tests for candidates (e.g. logical reasoning, verbal tests etc.) and these often have to be taken in one language out of EN, DE, FR (but not in your native one; obviously, the requirements and the exact testing procedure vary depending on the position).
I would say that here in Europe it is also better to have a university degree than not to have one, obviously (higher education is the basic requirement for many jobs in Poland, even where it shouldn't be) but the number of diplomas, grades, universities, specializations etc. are often of suprisingly little relevance. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 5941 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 85 of 104 06 November 2013 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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If I had to assess my language skills, I think I’d be as follows,
Spanish (B2): Passive C1 \ Active B2. Based on passing the second last module of the B2 Cervantes course at over 90%. The teacher said I would sail through the B2 cert, but I never sat it. Big mistake. French (B1): Passive C1(B2)\Active B2\Speaking B1. I’ve been using the DELF B2\C1 based material and have no problem with listening, grammar or comprehension tests. My biggest weakness is fluency in the oral section. Since speaking is my lowest skill I’m still a B1. Irish (B1): Passive C1(B2)\Active B1. 15 years of schooling, and a lot of exposure afterwards due to a number of friends working for TnaG, the Irish language station. Italian (A2): Passive B2\Active A2. I can read and watch Italian television with little effort. The large number of cognates with French and Spanish mean my passive skills are way ahead of my active ones. Russian (A2): Passive B1\Active A2. Russian has taken a large amount of time with very little return. A very challenging language. Personally I think it’s harder than Hungarian. Hungarian (A2): Passive B1(A2)Active A2. My Hungarian maybe slightly stronger than my Russian even though I’ve studied it slightly less. Malay (A2): Passive A2\Active A1. One of the easier non-European languages to tackle. I’ve a very large bucket of languages in the A1\A0 category including Polish, Thai, Danish, , Czech and Greek. Now for a bit of fun, my other skills if rated by the CEFR, IT (C2): Degree and long career. Guitar (A2): Can generally convey some sort of song, but listeners may struggle. Cooking (A1): Struggles with new recipes. Needs further work. Housework (A0): Clearly lacks motivation in this department. 10 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ogedi Triglot Newbie United States I don't have &#Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4004 days ago 4 posts - 5 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 86 of 104 06 November 2013 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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English: Native
Polish: Native (ish) (spoke with my grandparents a lot and they taught me how to read in it, its pretty polluted though with according to other speakers Yiddish and German) Spanish: C1 I can understand almost anything because I was around it All the time as a child, my speaking skills are very high up there. I always could speak it a bit being around it a lot but now I feel I have got to the point where all I can do now is speak more to get better. I have no problem conversing about everyday things and on the phone I can be mistaken as a native. Working on higher level vocab though. Reading matches listening. Chinese: B1-B2. I speak it decently, still make mistakes on tones however. My accent is also terrible. On skype calls I can understand maybe 80% of things being said. Writing is laughable and reading isn't much better French: A1 just a few phrases honestly MSA Arabic: A1 I know some Koran sayings from my friend and can say things like how are you 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5124 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 87 of 104 06 November 2013 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
And my big mistake was to take a sneak peak at this forum and reading the last part of your post in the middle of a big international meeting. Anyone who needs a mini course in how to camouflage snorting/laughing as coughing can now come to me. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4497 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 88 of 104 06 November 2013 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Must have been one boring meeting.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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