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A Rashi Decision: Learning Ladino | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 5851 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes  Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 9 of 85 29 January 2014 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Então sempre decidiste ir para a frente com esta ideia! Muito bem!
I guess you're going to enter a different dimension: if the past is a foreign country, what can we say about this? A language that has resonated through the Mediterranean for centuries, uniting a community! Wow! And with a different alphabet, at that! I also think that there must be a way to include this one in the forum's roster of languages. A final note: where else would you have gotten this kind of reaction but here? All of a sudden, there are links to sites, to videos... you gotta love this forum! Não vira! Segue, segue, segue... 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5052 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 10 of 85 29 January 2014 at 4:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Songlines, yes I knew about the crowd-funding project for the film but thanks for posting the link here. Susanna is also learning Ladino. Let's hope this project gets funded! Luso came up with the pun when I told him about it in Lisbon a few weeks ago.
Luso, muito obrigado pelo apoio e pelo nome do log também. O ladino, sendo um idioma derivado do castelhano antigo, tem muito semelhança ao português. Vamos ver como irá. Yeah, you've got to love HTLAL. Where else can a gentile guy living on a tiny Caribbean island, who's learning a dying Jewish language get the support of an American living in Japan learning Portuguese, an Australian who has learned Spanish and Dutch, a Canadian learning French, a Frenchmen who speaks Yiddish and is learning Egyptian, A Norwegian Spanish-speaker living in France learning Romansh and a Tuga who speaks Arabic and is learning Sanskrit! Munchas grasias a todos! Edited by iguanamon on 29 January 2014 at 6:55pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| akkadboy Triglot Senior Member France Joined 5198 days ago 264 posts - 497 votes Speaks: French*, English, Yiddish Studies: Latin, Ancient Egyptian, Welsh | Message 11 of 85 29 January 2014 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
Hmm, sorry, no idea about the coding.
I remember having the same kind of feeling with Yiddish :-) "What ?! A Germanic prefix used with a Hebrew verb in a sentence whose syntax has been influenced by Slavic languages !? How cool is that !?" Here's a couple of links you may find intersting (if you don't already know about them of course) : The Sephardi Studies Project Europeana 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4478 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 12 of 85 29 January 2014 at 7:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Wait, so is it traditional to write Ladino entirely in Rashi script? I'm quite familiar
and comfortable with that script, but I've never heard of or seen it used in any context that wasn't clearly some sort of commentary, quotation, parenthetical or footnote. Good luck! I suspect that a good month or two of intensive study might be enough for you to be ready to have basic conversations--if you can find someone to talk to! I learned Yiddish after knowing modern German (and a bit of Hebrew, so YMMV) mainly by reading the newspaper and listening to podcasts, and that's about how long it took for me to start to feel comfortable with it. Finding chances to use the language is definitely the biggest challenge. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5052 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 13 of 85 29 January 2014 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I was hoping you'd drop by, geoffw. I hope you will be here to help as I make my gentile way through my Rashi readings. Yes, Rashi script was the main writing system for printed Judeo-Spanish until the 1920's when the Latin alphabet took over. Handwriting was done in "Solitreo", cursive writing based on Rashi. Hebrew "square" characters were reserved for religious texts or titles. Everything I've read points to Hebrew being reserved for religious purposes, I guess Rashi was seen as a way to avoid sullying Hebrew with common, everyday non-spiritual life.
Amongst the Sefaradim, the term "Ladino" was reserved for a "calque" of Hebrew used as an instructional language for religious texts. The Judeo-Spanish-speakers themselves used various other terms like "Djudeo-espanyol", "Spanyolit", "Spanyol", "Dzhudezmo", etc. to refer to their language. Today Ladino is the generally accepted name for Judeo-Spanish. The good thing about knowing Spanish, Portuguese, some French (through school and Haitian Creole) and English is that I have a good grasp on what's going on already, at least in Latin script. The Turkish, Arabic and Hebrew words are throwing me for a loop though- just have to learn them. I'll ask around here if anyone knows someone who speaks the language. You just never know. :) Edited by iguanamon on 29 January 2014 at 8:29pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4478 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 14 of 85 29 January 2014 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
That sounds like the language situation that persists today in many Chassidic communities vis-a-vis Yiddish and Hebrew, especially those outside of Israel. Not sure if this is what you mean, but your description sounds almost like the term "Ladino" was used the way we might talk today about "Yeshivish" amongst the English- speaking Jews. And it sounds like you have a familiar problem, there. My biggest difficulties are with loanwords from outside of German and Hebrew. In many cases, the loanwords chosen depend on the geographic origin of the speaker/writer. For example, I've often said that Shalom Aleichem expects his readers to understand both Yiddish and Russian (he'll actually throw in whole sentences of Russian, written with Hebrew letters), whereas when reading Israel Joshua Singer (see: The Brothers Ashkenazi), I had to check a Polish dictionary every couple sentences. And I've been told that a lot of modern Chassidic Yiddish is based on Hungarian loanwords. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5356 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 15 of 85 31 January 2014 at 12:42am | IP Logged | |||||
Es tú quien es demasiado amable Iguanamon, gracias. Lo sé, apenas puedo creer lo mucho que he aprendido desde que empecé. Pero debo mucho a las personas que me alentaban a lo largo de los años y siguen alentándome, como tú mismo. He pensado en ello, pero para decir la verdad, ya tengo el polaco esperándome después de que haya trabajado en mi neerlandés y logrado que lo domine bien. Cuando empezaba con las lenguas tenía ensueños como cualquier otro de dominar lenguas a puñados, y en concreto lenguas como el islándico, el japonés, el árabe.. lenguas que no se relacionaron las unas a las otras en absoluto. Pero ahora que llevo cuatro años estudiando idiomas, puedo ver que dominar una lengua supone horas incontables, un empeño y brío fuerte y una energía que apenas nunca duerme para lograr que acabes conociéndola casi como tu lengua natal, algo que aún no he alcanzado. Así que, dado que soy una persona que prefiere cualidad que cantidad, no sé si voy a tener el tiempo para estudiar alguno de ellos. Pero quien sepa, tal vez algún día algo pasará y me enamoraré de uno de ellos y no me quedará más remedio que aprenderlo. ¿Cuánto tiempo te tardó para llegar a tener un buen entendimiento del portugués y poder usarlo sin muchas dificultades? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5052 days ago 2237 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 16 of 85 31 January 2014 at 1:55am | IP Logged | |||||
Pues, para mí, empecé mi aprendizaje del portugués hace tres años y fui al Brasil por un mes hace dos años. Puedes hablar en un nivel básico en poco tiempo, para dominarlo es otro cantar, requiere mas tiempo. Yo pudiera mirar una telenovela sin subtítulos dentro de dos años y medio. Los dos idiomas son bien parecidos, casi 80% de semejanza, pero es el porcentaje restante que hace toda la diferencia. Continuo intentando a mejorar mi portugués, pero ahora puedo leer cualquier libro, mirar pelis y televisión. Puedo viajar en el mundo lusoparlante y hablar y entender (la mayoría de veces) sin problemas, sí. Un periodista colombiano, Daniel Samper, escribió un artículo chistoso sobre su experiencia en aprender el Portugués (en castellano) Eu não falo português. Te admiro mucho por tus idiomas, cada uno tan diferente del otro. A veces, creo que estoy demasiado atascado en los idiomas de la península :). Tal vez, el aprendizaje del ladino y su alfabeto hebreo, con algunas palabras turcos, hebreos y árabes, pueda estimularme a aprender un idioma verdaderamente diferente. Pero me gusta tanto las culturas ibéricas y latina-americanas. Edited by iguanamon on 31 January 2014 at 2:49am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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