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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| DaisyMaisy Senior Member United States Joined 5175 days ago 115 posts - 178 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish Studies: Swedish, Finnish | Message 25 of 54 11 March 2014 at 5:47am | IP Logged | |||||
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The political stuff in a few of these posts is going to get another thread locked....
Fashion, you are getting a lot of honest feedback from some good people; I hope you will listen to it. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5129 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 26 of 54 11 March 2014 at 8:01am | IP Logged | |||||
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Like Iversen I am getting really tired of the negativity here. I would suggest that people focus on answering
something which is relevant for the question of the OP in a somewhat civilised way or stay out of this thread. In my opinion we are not really addressing the real issue here. We can all agree that it would be better for people if they learned the language of the country they move to, but the question is WHY they don't. There are so many advantages: better job opportunities, easier to get friends, better social status etc. And I do not buy the " they just don't care to, they are lazy" or whatever other explanation of that sort. My Peruvian friend has literally begged me to teach her Norwegian, she us absolutely desperate to learn it better, but after 12 years in Norway she has more problems with her Norwegian than just a few grammar errors. However I think most people (excluding language nerds like us :-) will learn only to the level where they get by. If they need an A2 they will do an A2, and if their needs dictate a B2 then a B2 it is. And few immigrants can say that they really need a C2. It would be a lot better for them, yes, but it is not a real need. I am no psychologist, but I think we also need to include the "safety factor". People feel safe when they speak a language they know well, particularly if it is their native language. And becoming an immigrant is a difficult process for most people. New language, new friends, finding a job, different food, finding a place to live, adapting to a new culture - this is tough. And a lot tougher for the parents than for the children. One day you are in a familiar environment, on top of the world, respected, and the next you are in a situation where it is difficult to find your bearings, and where people think you are stupid for not not speaking the local language well, and they do not care if you are already fluent in four other languages, they will still feel superior for knowing the local language better than you. I do not know if an 18-year old can even understand how hard this is for an adult. If I may give you some advice on how to help your parents, FashionPolyglot I would suggest that you start by acknowledging the wealth of knowledge your parents have on their home language and culture. Ask them questions about it, learn from them and tell them how proud you are of them and how much you love them. Children may think we parents do not need to hear this, but we do. All parents, not just the immigrants. And only then, once you have helped giving them the self confidence we all need, you can ease in the question of how you as a family could move forwards with the language with whichever means that is appropriate for your parents's level. If it is at a medium level, there may be word games that you could play on a family fun night, if it is at a very advanced level it may be more appropriate to just watch more media in English or interact more with native speakers. And ask them if it is OK if you correct their English. If they say no, then don't. If nothing else works then say that you need to speak English at home to improve your grades. Parents will climb mountains barefoot or swim oceans for their kids. Just remember to give them all your respect and love in the process and praise them profusely when they learn something new. And if you really want to help their linguistic journey, take your hard earned money and buy them flowers, or anything else that they would appreciate, and tell them that they are the best parents in the world, and that you are so grateful that they brought you to the US and gave you all these opportunities that people all over the world would gnaw off their left foot to have. And whatever you do, never ever be ashamed of your parents for struggling with the language. It is so much harder to get it right at their age. Lots of luck! Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 11 March 2014 at 9:01am 9 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4153 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 27 of 54 11 March 2014 at 8:33am | IP Logged | |||||
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My parents don't speak English themselves, and yet they sent me to learn when I was 5, before I ever knew I needed it. One more reason for me to be grateful to them, among the endless reasons I have.
As for anyone disrespecting my parents for not knowing languages, they would get to hear my "french"... When I was at the university, one of the professors, oxbridge and all, once talked about his parents as "those peasants", in a very bad way. I remember all the students felt disgust, and to this day I regret not saying to that man: those "peasants" sent you in a foreign country to be a university professor, instead of turning you into another helping hand in the family, and that's how you repay them? What a waste of education... Of course this is an extreme example, and fortunately most children are not like that. Parents usually go through a lot to help their children go further than themselves, and, as humans they have their limitations. Don't we all? I'm just saying, we should appreciate them more while we still have them around, because they will not be with us forever. Edited by renaissancemedi on 11 March 2014 at 8:48am 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3877 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 28 of 54 11 March 2014 at 9:52am | IP Logged | |||||
Lets be concrete. How bad are we talking about? I spent more than a decade in an English speaking country, have been working, reading, thinking in English for many many years; and I still have problems with English. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6392 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 29 of 54 11 March 2014 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
Specifically about Germany, my friend got free classes up to B1, but by his description they barely reached A2. He couldn't afford paying for more classes and he couldn't find a language exchange partner or a friend. By now he's reached B1, I think, and he can use German wherever he really needs it, but he uses English at work and all his friends are other immigrants, who are "more open" than Germans. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| FashionPolyglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 3738 days ago 39 posts - 73 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Portuguese | Message 30 of 54 11 March 2014 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
1. I agree 2. You're wrong about my personality. I'm super nice to others around me. You shouldn't judge a person you don't know. 3. I made this thread for the forum community. I don't care about my own participation for the time being. I've got other things to do that's more important, including learning a language. I have no interest replying to people at my current, beginner stage of language learning. Of course I'll intervene, if the conversation goes off-topic. It's only common sense. 4. I understand why you feel it's a tantrum. I don't see it as a tantrum. 5. I'll ask for help in my log, which I won't use often. I have a right to privacy, and even when I do, update my log, it's going to be when there's something interesting to say. Right now, there's nothing special about my language journey. I won't share anything with the public unless I feel it's worth something special. 6. That's true. Doesn't change the fact that many people are stuck in their comfort zones. Yes, it's offensive to say so, but I believe people should "broaden their horizon", if they want any respect from people from other ethnicities / nationalities. You can't imagine how many Filipino friends my parents have. They don't know many people who aren't Filipino. My parents only know their own heritage & culture. Of course I will feel uneasy about it. Edited by FashionPolyglot on 11 March 2014 at 4:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hekje Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4498 days ago 842 posts - 1330 votes Speaks: English*, Dutch Studies: French, Indonesian | Message 31 of 54 11 March 2014 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Okay, I'll bite...
Both of my parents are immigrants to the U.S., and neither of them had English as a first language. Specifically, my mother only spoke Mandarin up until the age of 7, and my father is Dutch and moved to the U.S. in his late twenties. Both of them speak English perfectly now. If you heard them, you would never guess they were anything but native speakers. So why is that? Why don't all immigrants turn out like my parents? Doesn't their experience show it can be done? Well, sure, it can be done. But you have to realize that my parents were so successful with English because they had massive advantages compared to the average immigrant. These are just a few: - My mother moved here as a child, at an age when it's comparatively easy to pick up a language. - When my father came to the U.S., he was already a doctor. He was making enough money that he didn't have to worry about survival. - My father came from a country where English was already widespread. - My parents' parents are all unusually educated for their countries of origin. - My parents both married someone who didn't speak their native language, meaning they had the opportunity to practice English around the clock. You can imagine how if any one of those advantages were taken away, my parents' English would not be as good as it is today. And yet even with all of these advantages, it was far from an easy journey. - It took at least 1-2 years of immersion for my dad to lose his accent, despite him starting off with a high level of proficiency. - As one of only a handful of Asian people in town, my mother grew up dealing with a significant amount of discrimination. For example, interracial relationships were widely discouraged, meaning that my mother could pretty much forget about dating in high school. - Because people constantly made fun of my mother's original, Chinese name, she gave it up and adopted an American one. - My father doesn't speak Dutch as well as he once did, and my mother no longer speaks Mandarin at all. So yes, my parents learned English, but at what cost? Neither maintain much of a connection with their original cultures. My mother in particular endured severe culture shock and sacrificed so much, up to and including her name. Even for my father it took time. Honestly, I have nothing but respect for immigrants. It's not a fun time. And when it comes to people, language is one of the last things I would judge. Edited by Hekje on 11 March 2014 at 7:11pm 8 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| FashionPolyglot Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 3738 days ago 39 posts - 73 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Portuguese | Message 32 of 54 11 March 2014 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | |||||
My parents English is B2 level. Seems good at a Linguistic sense, but in a real life conversational setting, it doesn't feel "fluent" enough to the native speaker. Edited by FashionPolyglot on 11 March 2014 at 7:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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