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EU- Mother tongue + 2 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Hungringo Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 3782 days ago 168 posts - 329 votes  Speaks: Hungarian*, English, Spanish Studies: French | Message 9 of 42 17 March 2014 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
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You can't expect someone to learn a language at school if not even the teachers are proficient. In Hungary many recently graduated English teachers don't have proper B2 skills in the language they are supposed to teach. They somehow pass their exams, mainly by learning how to pass them instead of learning the language itself. Edited by Hungringo on 17 March 2014 at 9:27pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6391 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 10 of 42 17 March 2014 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
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And then they teach how to pass exams instead of how to understand and communicate.
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| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4416 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 11 of 42 17 March 2014 at 11:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It's easy to resort to teacher bashing, but you can only learn a language by throwing yourself into it both
inside and outside the classroom. How many kids do that? If we exclude English, super-regional languages and states (or border regions) which have more than one language in widespread use, how many kids in any country actually learn to speak a language to a high level via the schooling system? English in Norway? Of course. Russian in Uzbekistan? Most likely. French in Zürich? Probably. Spanish in Brownsville Texas? Maybe. But German in Portugal? French in Poland? Italian in California? Japanese in Australia? Edited by beano on 18 March 2014 at 12:00am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6497 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 12 of 42 18 March 2014 at 12:26am | IP Logged | |||||
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While checking some sources relating to language teaching in public school here in Denmark I stumbled over a proposal from our local German language teachers' association. The government and various organizations press on for pushing the start of English classes down to 1. class, where the children are around 7 years old, whereas the next language (German or French) is supposed to be postponed til 7. class where they are around 13 years old. Anyone with just a shimmer of knowledge about language learning would probably agree that this is too late - you won't get any fluent speakers of German or French with that model unless the pupils somehow learn the languages outside school. Their English will be fine, but the notes are already moving steadily opwards because of the massive exposure to English everyone gets here in Denmark. So instead the teachers propose a more traditional model where English starts in 3. class (around the age of 9), then another language (like German) is added in the 5. class and a third may be added in the 8. class. But will it happen? Probably not - the 'early English' lobbyists have done their work well, and they don't care a bit about any other L2 language than English (which they think is enough for any conceivable purpose on this planet).
AS far as I remember I also had English from 3. class, German from 5. and Latin from 8. class (called 'real' back then) - French followed in the 'gymnasium' (high schoool - I was 15 at that time). Edited by Iversen on 18 March 2014 at 10:48am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| yantai_scot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4596 days ago 157 posts - 214 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 13 of 42 18 March 2014 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I was reading this the other evening (I have no life). It's a report on what foreign languages are taught within the EU, at which ages and the proportions of which
languages compared to others. If you're a language enthusiast with a background in education- hold on to your hats- it's fascinating! The full document is here L 2, L3+ teaching in EU schools I found the most interesting tables were on: p.26- the ages L2 and L3 are introduced by nation p.65- The number of languages learned in EU secondary schools by nation. p.73- The most popular taught languages in secondary schools ranked 1-4 by nation p.79- Percentages of secondary pupils learning various languages Surprising facts from it are: That English is far and away the most popular L2 across the EU. That French is only learned by about 30% of EU secondary pupils and German half of that again. The number of countries where English is overwhelmingly the L2 taught in primary schools. Only 8% of EU primary pupils are learning French or German as their L2! 4% for each. That a third of Dutch children at the age of 10 haven't yet started to learn any foreign language. What surprised me is much like the OP said- that EU kids really aren't the multi- lingual types we imagine them to be if their country isn't officially bilingual. Edited by yantai_scot on 18 March 2014 at 1:27pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4416 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 14 of 42 18 March 2014 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think perhaps some people from other continents imagine that European kids are being exposed to multiple languages on an almost daily basis. That may be the case in Luxembourg and parts of Switzerland but most people lead their daily lives through one language. Yes, there are parts of Europe where English proficiency is very high but there can't be many people who actively use 3-4 languages as they go about their everyday business.
People from vast territories like America and Canada often make the point that it takes several days to drive across these countries whereas in Europe you can pass through several countries, each of which speak a different language, within a much shorter timeframe. That's all very well in theory but it doesn't necessarily mean that people are making great use of the various languages they come across. And how often are such journeys actually undertaken? Edited by beano on 18 March 2014 at 2:33pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 3876 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 15 of 42 18 March 2014 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
Four languages in school education (apart from the mother tongue)?!? This is madness for 95% of the students. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5128 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 16 of 42 18 March 2014 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | |||||
To me it sounds like heaven :-) 8 persons have voted this message useful |
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