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Article: Students fall short on Vocabulary | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4453 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 137 of 319 15 April 2014 at 1:00am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
A quick look at today's BBC website throws up: Ukraine, a court case about newspapers breaking into people's voicemails, the NSA, Heartbleed, the Pistorious trial, a blast in Nigeria, a marathon runner who died, Commonwealth games medals, a building collapse, an unbelievable fare dodger, yet another celebrity sex case, a school probe, Banksy artwork, a few football related stories, an eclipse, an IRA-related story and the death of an author. I assume that any one of those might come up as a starting point. I agree that the maybe 80% of the unique words will be generic ("I'd suggest that", "In my considered opinion", "I'm afraid I have to disagree with that point of view") but sooner or later you have to be able to talk about some specifics (and be able to work around the ones that you don't recall or aren't sure how to use). 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6385 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 138 of 319 15 April 2014 at 1:44am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
No, because you never know what will show up in the real world. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5218 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 139 of 319 15 April 2014 at 4:26am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
This is an excellent post because it illustrate perfectly the myth of these unpredictable subjects that require such a wide range of vocabulary. Let's put ourselves in the shoes of the IELTS or CEFR exam designers. These exams are for the entire world and a wide range of ages and level of education. Are we really going to use as starting points the Russian takeover of Crimea? The snooping by the NSA? The Heartbleed computer bug? You must be kidding? Or my favourite: the Banksy artwork. How do you design a test question using this as a starting point? Do you really want to make an IELTS question based on this? I consider myself relatively cultivated, but I really have know idea who Banksy is. I would probably fail because I have no specific vocabulary related to Banksy. As I have tried many times to point out, these tests are not based on highly specific and often ephemeral topics. These tests are not tests of knowledge of current events. The French CEFR test will not be asking about the results of the recent municipal elections in France. Do you know the name of the new mayor of Paris? You will not be asked what do you think of the implementation of Obamacare. You will be asked some generic question on the role of the state in medical care. Of course, the number of possible topics is unlimited. How do you prepare for these tests? Do you try to memorize all the details in the Guardian newspaper or the BBC news for a year? This is ridiculous. The questions will be phrased in generic terms. And you can answer in generic terms. Now it's up to you to demonstrate the range of your vocabulary if you so desire by bringing up events in Crimea and maybe the Pistorious trial in South Africa. Maybe if you can bring up the name of his dead girlfriend's name a year from now, you'll get extra points. If your studying for the exam consists of filling your head with all this minutiae, you are setting yourself up for failure. Edited by s_allard on 15 April 2014 at 4:28am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5218 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 140 of 319 15 April 2014 at 4:52am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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While boning up on my English vocabulary I came across the following passage in the April 15 edition of the
Guardian: "He probably bragged about it in the pub and somebody will shop him and then unless he owns his own hedge fund he's probably out of a job." I had never heard this usage of the verb "to shop" meaning "to inform on someone". You learn something every day. And on the same page of the Guardian there was for people to write about major milestones in their lives such as losing a stone. For a minute I thought they were talking about kidney stones. But then I realized that in Britain a stone is still commonly used for human weights. Now all you have to do is use these words in your IELTS exam. This should blow away the examiner. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4321 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 141 of 319 15 April 2014 at 8:45am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I have no idea how you fake a C2 exam. I have also no idea how you could possibly do the exam with a limited vocabulary and only good grammar. Here is the description for the German C2 examination:
Written Exam Taken in Groups (195 minutes) In the reading module, you demonstrate your ability to effortlessly understand a broad spectrum of texts, irrespective of their contextual or linguistic complexity, and in doing so, comprehend the implicit meaning; In the listening module, you show you are able to understand a wide variety of spoken language, regardless of the speed at which it is spoken, in direct dialogue as one finds in the media; In the writing module, using a general or text-specific topic, you document your ability to compose cohesive texts, which illustrate the facts of a case in a structured, clear, fluent and stylistic manner to the respective audience and are in keeping with the intended purpose. Individual Oral Exam (ca. 15 minutes) In the speaking module, you make it clear you are able to freely and extensively speak as well as effortlessly take part in a discussion and, at the same time, use idiomatic expressions and differentiate finer linguistic nuances. You are given 15 minutes to prepare and structure your presentation on the topic you choose. Sure, grammar is important. Did anyone say otherwise? But I find it ridiculous to think you could go into one of these exams vocab-lite, especially since size of vocabulary has been shown to to account for about 70% of the variance in written comprehension tests and about 50% in spoken tests. Edited by patrickwilken on 15 April 2014 at 9:29am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4453 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 142 of 319 15 April 2014 at 10:27am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Crimea, snooping and Heartbleed are all worldwide events. I've seen all three on French and Italian news sites. I've seen the first two on NHK News (Japanese). I've no idea what an examiner might use as a starting point - are there any sample transcripts available? They are all topics that have cropped up in the kitchen at work. The Indian and Japanese guys seemed to cope. MH370 came up too.
I thought the point was that no-one knows who Banksy is :-) His latest oeuvre was mentioned on Corriere della sera so I don't think he's a uniquely Anglo-Saxon phenomenon.
Or I might be asked about urban pollution and Paris' latest move to only allow motorists in every other day: How does that compare to whatever might be going on locally in my area. That sounds exactly like the sort of question that might crop up in the kitchen at work.
I don't think I suggested that you need to memorise all of this. You might, however, try reading the Guardian or the BBC website for a month or so just to make sure that there's nothing that crops up that stumps you. You don't need to remember that Boris is the mayor or that there is a bike scheme that bears his name but "mayor" and "bike" are useful vocabulary that shouldn't leave you confused.
Absolutely. You don't need to remember the name of the girl the Blade Runner shot, but "shoot", "gun", "bathroom door" might be useful things to know in general. Edited by dampingwire on 15 April 2014 at 10:30am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 6993 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 143 of 319 15 April 2014 at 10:44am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Someone here posted some videos a while back that show things examiners should look for, such as a person how changes the subject so they can go into a rehearsed monologue.
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6385 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 144 of 319 15 April 2014 at 11:40am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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