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Process for beginning Asian languages | ||
Tags: Asian Languages | Beginner | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Irish_Goon Senior Member United States Joined 6207 days ago 117 posts - 170 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 1 of 20 25 June 2014 at 8:44pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hey everyone.
Got a quick question that probably will not warrant a quick response but here it goes anyway. Regarding European languages, I have a set method and set of expectations. For example, I use Assimil, FSI, or some combination thereof and then move on to native materials. That is a method I have grown accustomed to. Regarding languages that have a different script, more specifically Asian languages, I am curious as to how some of you have started your endeavors. What programs (if any) did you use? How soon did you move to native materials? I am particularly interested in those of you whom have started out with Eurpoean languages and moved into Asian or exotic script languages. Just to be clear I am not starting a specific language right now, but in the future when I decide to learn one I would like some sort of starting base or method that has been tried by someone here. I listened to members here regarding the study of other languages and it helped me immensely, and it gives me reason to believe that further advice would be helpful. Thank you in advance. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ezy Ryder Diglot Senior Member Poland youtube.com/user/Kat Joined 4141 days ago 284 posts - 387 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 2 of 20 25 June 2014 at 9:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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My first foreign language was English. Then I started learning Japanese. I started by reading
about the pronunciation (phonemes, changing pronunciations of the moraic nasal, gemination, devoicing of certain vowels...), learning the syllabaries, a bit of vocabulary and grammar, and about 1300 Chinese logograms. First (tried to) start reading native content after learning some more grammar, and about 4000 words. First ~5800 words I've learnt from pre-made wordlists, the last 4000 from intensive reading. Currently got sick of SRS'ing Japanese vocab, and (attempting to) move on to extensive reading (native content). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Michel1020 Tetraglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 4809 days ago 365 posts - 559 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch | Message 3 of 20 25 June 2014 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Well I didn't go deep into non-latin-script languages.
I think it is possible to learn a language from audio only. There are audio courses (some providing pdf but you can learn a lot just listening to the mp3). http://www.talktomeinkorean.com http://www.popuchinese.com http://www3.nhk.or.jp/lesson/index.html I also think it is possible to learn a language from native material with subtitles or with pictures or if you already know the specific stuff from other languages or have a translation. I read on the internet the Blu-ray disc of a Star Trek serie have a japanese track beside the european languages available on the dvd. However take care translations are sometime far from perfect. For example in the first 2 episodes of Star Trek Voyager - an entity provides 5 years of supply wich become 50 years in the french version. Here a way to use online dictionaries and automatic translators for languages you don't know the script. Translate from L1 to your target - copy the result and translate it back to L1 if you don't come back to your original L1 - work more with L1 synonym or target language synonym (probably difficult but not impossible or wait to meet the word again). When you are happy with a translation listen to it. Do you hear this word in your mp3 ? 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| holly heels Groupie United States Joined 3678 days ago 47 posts - 107 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 4 of 20 26 June 2014 at 12:39am | IP Logged | ||
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My first foreign language was Spanish and I had a native speaker as a teacher, but I didn't get very far, because I had to move unexpectedly.
Then in 2010 I began a comprehensive self-study of Mandarin and am now using exclusively native materials, 1/2 hrs of TV news daily and 3-4 hours of internet radio daily while I am working. BTW Mandarin is not my favorite language but I am fascinated with the language ever since I visited Taiwan in 2009 and can see it's potential economically. But back to the beginning. In 2010 I seriously considered many self-study programs ans finally settled on Mandarin Chinese Learning Through Conversation, volumes 1 and 2. I prefer to call it Mandarin 301, because each volume contains 301 sample sentence which form the framework of my vocabulary today. This also includes 2 MP3 CDs and has the pinyin option. It took me 14 months to complete the 2 volumes, about 500 pages. The first volume took 9 months to complete, and I raced through the second volume in about 5 months, never missing a day. I also wrote out by hand all 602 sentences as well as most of the grammatical exercises and quizzes, and reviewed them orally on a daily basis. About 6 months into the study I began to simultaneously construct sentences independent from the textbook. I can remember describing going shopping for a sweater and trying to sequence all the tones correctly actually gave me a headache. My brain felt like a rock about to explode. One of the most mentally challenging exercises I have ever done, although I continued it daily to supplement my textbook learning. After completing the study, I went out and bought the Tuttle Concise Chinese Dictionary, which is not as comprehensive as the Oxford, but it suits my purposes for now. Both of these have the pinyin option also. So since 2010 I have written out by hand maybe 4,000 words and phrases. My vocabulary is probably about 5,000 words. Now all that's really great, but it's meaningless if you can't understand what you're hearing. Starting September last year I went full on native material, TV and radio. I have watched some Mandarin talk shows, some of which are just glorified infomercials, but complicated subjects nonetheless, and can understand nearly everything. I don't go to church, but I am now listening to a weekly Mandarin sermon, and understand much of that as well. When the preacher talks about the grapes and fig trees of the Holy Land, that is Mandarin at its most earthy and its most poetic. However unfortunately that level of understanding does not extend to the the 1 minute "newsbursts" I subject myself to everyday. Sometimes I understand, but sometimes I just zone out and can't concentrate, which I can't afford to do. So that is a mixed bag. I torture myself further by listening to call-in cooking shows. Often I can't make out what the callers are saying. The scratchiness of their voices doesn't help either. Excuses excuses. Native speakers have praised my tones and pronounciation and have been willing to talk to me in Mandarin. I am especially happy when they don't resort to English, and I have had several long conversations on a variety of subjects where English is never used, but in many of them they do speak some English when they see I am struggling, but I continue to speak Mandarin. I have the vocabulary but I don't have the real world experience. I think some languages can be learned to fluency entirely through self-study. Mandarin may not be one of them. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| fabriciocarraro Hexaglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Brazil russoparabrasileirosRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4507 days ago 989 posts - 1454 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, EnglishB2, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French Studies: Dutch, German, Japanese | Message 5 of 20 26 June 2014 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | ||
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I researched a lot here on this and on other forums, but I did pretty much the same with Japanese as with European languages.
1 - Michel Thomas, to get a gist of the language (the Japanese one is pretty good) 2 - Get a good textbook and go through it (I started out with "Japanese for Busy People", but found out that it's veeeeeeeeeeeeeery slow and changed to "Genki 1", which I loved!) 3 - Keep a notebook with notes and important grammar structures from the textbook. 4 - While going through the textbook, having Italki lessons once a week/every 2 weeks, to practice speaking 5 - Creating an Anki deck with new vocabulary. I think Memrise would work as well. And that's it! The thing with Japanese is that you can do just fine without Kanji, knowing only both alphabets (katakana and hiragana). I studied about 5 months without learning any Kanji, but it got to the point when I had to do something about it, so now it's been a month since I've stopped learning the Japanese language and I'm focusing 100% on learning the Kanji. So far, I know around #370 by heart, and it's way more fun than it seemed at first! I'm using a book called "Remembering the Kanji" by James Heisig, and it's awesome! When I get aroud Kanji #500/600, I'll get a new textbook ("Genki 2") and go through it as well. You should try it, it's way less intimidating than it looks! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4236 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 6 of 20 26 June 2014 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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My first language is Cantonese as a mother-tongue. I started learning English in school and then the
family relocated and English became the dominant language of communication. The past year I've been focusing on my Mandarin using Pinyin. Back in the 1960s a place like Hong Kong had not adopted any kind of phonetic system of learning Chinese. There was a lot of memorizing Chinese characters. I don't think spending hours to memorize a foreign script is the best way. Every language you come across including the ones that do not have a writing system can be written out phonetically using the English alphabet. There are 2 singers in China from Nigeria in W. Africa (Hǎogē 郝歌 & Hǎodì 好弟) who learned many songs with Pinyin. They are not fluent in writing Chinese characters but would do their texting phonetically and the Chinese would understand what they said. You basically build up a set of basic words and phrases. If you are learning an alphabet like Japanese or Korean, you can pick it up in a few weeks. When it comes to Chinese characters, you build your characters gradually as you come across them. For instance: you'd introduce yourself in a conversation like: "Hello, my name is <your name>" "Salut, je m'appelle <your name>" in French "Nǐhǎo, wǒshì <your name>" in Chinese before you learn to write "你好, 我是 <your name>" Nowadays electronic devices are so common, you can get around without too much effort trying to learn Chinese characters 1 stroke at a time but instead spend more time recognizing them like someone who can recognize the picture of a fish but he is terrible at drawing. Some languages like Vietnamese just use the Latin alphabet. Chinese you have a choice of Traditional characters used in Taiwan & Hong Kong and Simplified characters used in Mainland China. Edited by shk00design on 27 June 2014 at 3:45am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Irish_Goon Senior Member United States Joined 6207 days ago 117 posts - 170 votes Speaks: English* | Message 7 of 20 27 June 2014 at 12:50am | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you to everyone has has posted something thus far. Shk00, so you are saying learn phonetically with some charactrs thrown in? You hit on precisely what I was curious about.
I am so used to reading being a huge part of my vocabulary acquisition that it would seem weird to learn the sounds and "romanize" them and then learn the script. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4681 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 8 of 20 27 June 2014 at 2:15am | IP Logged | ||
This more than anything!
There are so many new things to keep track of in E. Asian languages; I've always needed to keep a word file or spreadsheet of the ideas, but organized based upon how I think and learn. I've never managed to get to native materials, though. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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