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Italian and French at the same time | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Enrico Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 3533 days ago 162 posts - 207 votes  Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Italian, Spanish, French | Message 1 of 34 30 August 2014 at 1:21am | IP Logged |
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Hello everybody!
Does anyone have any advises how to study Italian and French simultaneously? Is it possible to study Italian and French at the same time using Assimil for instance? Or maybe it will be better to study Italian with Assimil but French with other course? How to avoid interference learning them simultaneously? Thank you. Edited by Enrico on 30 August 2014 at 1:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tristano Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 3835 days ago 905 posts - 1262 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: Dutch | Message 2 of 34 30 August 2014 at 2:59pm | IP Logged |
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Hi Enrico,
I can tell you my experience (other people will tell different things) and then you can make your own opinion about it. There is no true science about language learning and very successful polyglots have amazing success by doing completely different stuff. I speak Italian as a native speaker, then English and French as foreign languages. I tried different methods, with different things and with different languages this year. I burn out different times :) In my opinion, like Tarvos suggested me in a couple of posts that I have to write in the stone with a diamond pen in my "Choosing a Slavic language" thread, the condition that makes you progress much faster and enjoy more the process (because of the return of investment) is FOCUS. You focus yourself on a single language (meaning start only once at a time) for x months (x depends on you) and you have therefore a head start on that language. When you are already at a useful level in that language (that to me means that I can read and write, understand easy audio resources and speak about basic topics with natives) you can start another one and focus on the other one (still exercising with the previous languages, that in case you can use native resources, it's very enjoyable at this time). Since you seem to be in Italy right now, if I were you I would start with Italian. About resources, it seems that with Assimil you can't go wrong; but I also think that it's not enough to learn a language. You can look for some methods different enough to use it in parallel with Assimil (like can be, for example, Teach Yourself and Duolingo. But don't take these two names literally: look for the one who is more appealing for your learning style!). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Enrico Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 3533 days ago 162 posts - 207 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Italian, Spanish, French | Message 3 of 34 30 August 2014 at 3:25pm | IP Logged |
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Thank you Tristano. The only concern is that "x month" until I will be able to read original materials like newspapers
and websites and watching videos like Youtube and movies is not less than around 6 months as I think :-) So it means to put aside another language for 6 months :( But the whole idea looks reasonable of course. A little off topic. How do you personally think as a native Italian what combination of languages will be best for 1) Travel along Mediterranean (especially Italian, French, Spanish and maybe Greek) 2) Travel all over Europe I mean combination of English + Italian + French or English + Italian + Spanish. And by the way, can you as Italian partially understand Spanish and Portuguese speakers? Thank you. Edited by Enrico on 30 August 2014 at 3:27pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| tristano Tetraglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 3835 days ago 905 posts - 1262 votes Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: Dutch | Message 4 of 34 30 August 2014 at 5:16pm | IP Logged |
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x months depend not only on how much you progressed but also about what are your goals. As an Italian native
speaker that spoke with different foreigner with a very low level of Italian, I can tell you that it's easy to speak with an Italian (well, actually depends, this is at least true in the north; in the south where they are more used to speak their dialects can be difficult also for Italians) also because the Italian language is very forgiving in matter of terrible grammar and pronunciation. Is that enough for you? Do you want to be able to read the newspapers before to move on? How early you leave the language depends solely on you. Of course if you leave it too early can be a problem. About your other questions: 1) you told it :) Those countries are specifically bad at languages so it's useful if you learn their languages. 2) well, that depends on your definition of "all over Europe". Because if it's true that with English you can go anywhere, to truly enjoy the experience and go deeper with the countries and the people you have to learn their languages. So if the languages are 40 you have to learn 40 :D For sure in addition of the mediterranean ones, you need English and German. With those languages you're covering Italy, Spain, Portugal, French, Swiss, Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria, Netherlands, Germany, Greece, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, The Netherlands, and some other that I forget. But if you want to go to Romania you need Romanian, in Hungary you need Hungarian... depends where do you want to go. Spanish and Portuguese are understood if spoke very simply (more Spanish) and at a really slow pace. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Enrico Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 3533 days ago 162 posts - 207 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Italian, Spanish, French | Message 5 of 34 30 August 2014 at 6:59pm | IP Logged |
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Grazie mille Tristano.
What do you mean by "understand easy audio resources"? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6385 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 6 of 34 30 August 2014 at 7:00pm | IP Logged |
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What I've done:
1) learned Portuguese to A2/weak B1 2) got interested in football after Euro-2008 and started watching it in Portuguese 3) started watching Spanish and Italian football in the respective languages, "just to get used to these languages" 4) found myself understanding more and more, started consuming different content (ie not only football) In general, I find that learning only to understand doesn't cause interference. If you want, it can be a good idea to learn one language seriously and the other one more casually, by watching stuff, listening to music (try lyricstraining etc. Basically a multi-track approach split between two languages. BTW, French is a less good candidate for the "casual language" than Italian or Spanish, since the pronunciation is so peculiar. Of course later on you can swap your serious/casual languages, and when you've got some base in French you'll be able to learn it more casually too. I think your worrying is becoming a form of procrastination. Nobody knows your situation better than yourself, so choose 2-3 specific strategies and give them a try (meaning a reasonable amount of time - only give up after 1 week if you're absolutely sure you're literally learning nothing). Experiment! Obviously if you succeed with the first or second strategy you try, just continue, don't try for the sake of trying. And don't look for a "perfect" strategy - if it works and you enjoy it, go for it. Also, how soon do you plan to travel? You don't need to make up your mind asap. When you have some specific travel plans, you can always do some Spanish (for example) and learn enough to make your stay more comfortable. Quality vs quantity is not really as binary as it's often presented. Many can speak 1-2 languages at a high level and know the basics of several more. It's not like you have to choose one or the other, and you also don't have to rush towards the high level. Set manageable goals, and when you know the basics you can decide how much is enough for you. Or you can enjoy what you can do at your current level and consolidate it for a couple of years before truly starting a journey towards a more advanced level. You don't have to decide now. Don't make plans for 2017, focus on what you want to achieve in 2014 and 2015. Edited by Serpent on 30 August 2014 at 7:00pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Enrico Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 3533 days ago 162 posts - 207 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Italian, Spanish, French | Message 7 of 34 30 August 2014 at 7:33pm | IP Logged |
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Спасибо за ответ Serpent.
But to start learning even just to understand only, one have to start from a course like Assimil anyway. So it is interesting for me how to divide language learning time between the too using Assimil courses for example. I can't finally decide between French and Spanish for the "casual language" :-) Edited by Enrico on 30 August 2014 at 7:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6385 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 8 of 34 30 August 2014 at 9:13pm | IP Logged |
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That's the point, you don't have to use courses for both languages, at least not consistently. Up to B1 or even low B2, learning any of Italian/Portuguese/Spanish also improves your understanding of the two others, almost as much as your main one. Many of the differences will be really obvious too. Ie I didn't omit any steps, with my Romance languages I've mostly used coursebooks for Portuguese (and I read a book about how Latin developed into the modern languages too). I also watched Destinos, which is a series for Spanish learners, but I could already understand the content at that point and I didn't use the workbooks etc, nor looked up anything. Italian has been the most tricky out of the three, and I'm currently using a podcast, a book for Spanish learners of Italian, and cultural materials created with learners in mind. I understand the language well but the intermediate grammar is kinda overwhelming.
I don't recommend French as a "casual language". AFAIU, it has a somewhat steeper learning curve, and the very early stage can be more difficult than with Spanish or Italian. BTW, I also dislike the sound of French, but with my knowledge of the related languages I really enjoyed some lessons on GLOSS. They're also available for Spanish but sadly not Italian. Lyricstraining is available in all three, btw - give it a try! That's definitely a resource you can use without any formal study, again especially for Italian or Spanish. Also, which is your native language? Edited by Serpent on 30 August 2014 at 9:13pm 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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