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ARABIC-my story-thousands of hrs-and now? | ||
Tags: Learning Strategy | Arabic | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Auguste Triglot Newbie France Joined 3430 days ago 2 posts - 8 votes Speaks: German, French*, EnglishC2 Studies: Arabic (classical) | Message 1 of 12 07 January 2015 at 4:23pm | IP Logged |
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I just signed up on this site to learn from you and to share my experience learning Arabic classical, which is very remote from the languages I use daily: French, German, and English.
The reason I write today is that I don’t know anyone around me who is learning a language. I cannot share my experience and cannot check whether I am a good or average learner. With Arabic, I have the feeling that I do only little progress considering all the energy I have put on it. And I start to ask myself if I am doing the right thing in my life. Actually nobody knows around me, even not my close family ( my wife would get crazy since I have other resp to fulfil job+ kids). They juste know my interest for the arabic language and believe that I read from time to time few pages from a book. Sometimes I’m asking myself I did the right choice. But I cannot imagine abandoning something where I invested so much on. - My level today: I can decipher a newspaper or read stories, but am a slow reader. I understand between 10% and 20% of what I listen on BBC Arabic or Al Jazeera - I can write and suppose I am quite good in grammar – I would rate myself in those both areas to B2-C1 - I can speak almost about everything, but in a slow pace – level B2 probably - my vocab: 3500 active flashcards - 1 flashcard contains sing/pl forms of words or verb form. Now my story: I spend 2 years in the Middle East in the beginning of 2000s. I learnt there a little of dialect. Actually wasn’t interested at all in learning Arabic, I did it just for fun. I was in my 25. Back to Europe, I started to work, and abandoned completely Arabic. 2 years later, I started to dig in the internet and looked for learning materials. I started then on my own to learn Arabic. The problem is that I hadn’t a systematic way of learning and did it at my pace. Retrospectively, I thing I didn’t learnt much, only writing and reading the Arabic script. Then I stopped again because I had to prepare some exams/tests for getting in a business school (add a degree to my engineering). I had for the second time completely abandoned Arabic. That’s for the intro…. Below some details. 2002-2003: books like “learn Arabic in 40 lessons” and “Syrian Colloquial Arabic” I learnt reading and writing, started to memorize vocab and listen to recorded text, did some exercices . Amount of vocab memorized very limited. Time invested may be 1h/week 2005-2006: tried to learn passively, but not clear commitment to learn. 2007-20010: gave up completely. 2010 : I went on y-Tube and looked for Arabic teaching materialS. Came across videos from LQ Toronto, teaching the Madina book series. I was seduced so decided to start from scratch everything again: 2010: Madina Arabic 1 2011: Madina Arabic 2 / Madina Arabic 3 3 Volumes + 40 Dvds , several hundred pages each - exercises and deep Arabic grammar + learned probably 700 Words with flashcard => probably time invested 700hours(completed them in 2 years) 2011: I started to read and listen to recordings from audio books for children until I could understand them, learned 500 words more (6 months – 150h) 2012: I felt more comfortable in Arabic after this lectures, however could barely understand a sentence on Arabic tv or radio broadcasts. I believed that I would master Arabic after these courses, but wasn’t the case. So looked for new teaching materialS and stopped for a while learning. Was about to abandon as I got a new job. But few months later started again. 2012 – April 2014: Went through the complete Defence Language institute + recordings : 141 lessons=> estimated time: 700 hours ( I ignored exercises where you have to write stories, or discuss about a topic). More concentrated on learning, listening, reading, and doing exercises mentally) Roughly 2000 pages 2013- 2014: Started in parallel the Foreign Service Institute Vol 2 + recordings + vol 3 – Ignored the first lessons, as I alreay Knew much of the grammar, just learned new vocabulary -. So went through lessons 33 – 70 . Regarding vol 3, it contains only text to read. Still have 20 chapters to read. Roughly 1500 pages of text. Estimated time: 200 hours incl repeated listening sometimes 10 times the same track or portionS of track 2013 – 2014: to improve my listening comprehension skills which are very low, I started to listen to radio BBC, and other programs, and U Tube conferences etc. Estimated time: 300 hours of listening only I thought that after the DLI program, I would be fluent in Arabic(at least in listening) but wasn’t the case so I pursued my quest…. Since July 2014, I work on the Al kitaab series – did vol 1 and 2 . again doing mentally the exercices, reading, listening to the recordings. Ignored exercises with redaction of texts, and discussions. Total 28 lessons until now: estimated time 200 hours. Two lessons still to cover. Since 2012 I learnt 3500 words with iPhone app(vocab from DLI/FSI/Alkitaab). 1500 other are waiting from my former madina courses and others sources, reactivate them slowly whenever I encounter them in my readings. Time invested per day: 40mn/day => 240 hours/year => total = 720hours just memorizing vocab. Total: 2920 hours in the past 5 years studying Arabic. Caveat: I am not as focused as I would have been at school or as student. I am very distracted and am interrupted very often- I learn/listen when I drive/commute/stand/sleep/ walk/ etc. So I would say that the time effectively spent on learning is 2/3 of that time, thus about 2000 hours. I have now a question: - I ve read on various blogs and forum that you have to read,read,read… and listen, listen, listen to improve both your voca/reading and listening comprehension. I heard a lot, actively and repetitively (from lessons) and half actively/passively from internet streaming(videos y tube- BBC Arabic etc). Until now, I didn’t experience that “magic” breakthrough moment where you listen without having to focus on every word you listen. Even with simple stories in Arabic, I still have to put myself in 100%active and focused position to understand every single word I listen. If for some reason I lose focus and think to something else, I have no idea what has been said in the recording. I have to rewind (thanks god there many good iphone apps), sometimes 5 times. I have to almost picture the word in my mind and see it written to be able to understand. Have you similar experiences? Or besides not practicing speaking, I am doing something wrong? Is this breakthrough out of reach passed a certain age (I am 40 now). Or how much do I have still to read listen to get to that graal level of comprehension fluency? Of course I would be glad to get your feedback and hear from you if you struggle as much as I do. Edited by Auguste on 13 January 2015 at 10:31am 7 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Ezy Ryder Diglot Senior Member Poland youtube.com/user/Kat Joined 4163 days ago 284 posts - 387 votes  Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 2 of 12 07 January 2015 at 5:12pm | IP Logged |
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I don't know much about Arabic, but 3500 words doesn't seem to be much. I've also been learning
a rather unrelated language, and in my case, even 12k words wasn't enough (for me, at least). Of course, I'm not saying vocabulary is the only thing that can help you, but it might be worth considering. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Michel1020 Tetraglot Senior Member Belgium Joined 4831 days ago 365 posts - 559 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish, Dutch | Message 3 of 12 07 January 2015 at 5:24pm | IP Logged |
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It looks to me like a lot of courses - by the way are you sure all those courses teach you MSA - for sure the syrian one you are talking about did not.
My advice either tell your wife or divorce or stop learning. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6396 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 4 of 12 07 January 2015 at 6:55pm | IP Logged |
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Sounds like you'd be a good candidate for some Listen/Read practice. There are threads on this forum about the method, but basically you listen to an Arabic audiobook and read along in the same book in French. It sounds like you know enough to be able to know where you are in the book, which is otherwise the problem with nontransparent languages. L/R allows you to tackle real literature even though your level isn't yet good enough (you'll finally be able to get though a book in Arabic in a matter of days or weeks). It's a form of cheating, but it allows you to get the massive exposure you need to make breakthroughs though input alone. It's preferable to work with the same book several times, reading along first in French a few times and then in Arabic. The ideal is if you can find a bilingual version with the text side by side, but that's hard to find.
I'd recommend you to try this kind of practice. It has its limits on when it's applicable, but in your case it sounds like it could work. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| luhmann Senior Member Brazil Joined 5147 days ago 156 posts - 271 votes Speaks: Portuguese* Studies: Mandarin, French, English, Italian, Spanish, Persian, Arabic (classical) | Message 5 of 12 07 January 2015 at 9:53pm | IP Logged |
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You can find Korean and Chinese tv serials dubbed in MSA on youtube, and some historic (islamic) drama. Cartoons are also dubbed in MSA, there are many on youtube, and much more can be found elsewhere. If these give you trouble, convert them to MP3 and listen the same episodes again and again, you will understand more each time.
Thats what I do for listing practice. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| napoleon Tetraglot Senior Member India Joined 4830 days ago 543 posts - 874 votes Speaks: Bengali*, English, Hindi, Urdu Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 6 of 12 09 January 2015 at 3:16pm | IP Logged |
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Bonjour et bienvenue !
Thanks for sharing your story. I had wanted to follow the exact same plan as you. Three books of Lq Toronto Arabic. Followed by FSI MWA and the DLI Basic Course. Except, I only finished about half of the first Madinah book, I'm ashamed to admit, before I quit. :) One of these days, I'll get back to it. I hope. :) Anyway, I don't have any advice for you. You're way further down the road than me. The only thing I can do is to wish you the best. Je vous souhaite de la chance. Bon apprentissage ! :) Update: Last time I checked, there was a historical series on YouTube on Umar, the second Caliph. It's in MSA and it has subtitles. It's also free. Should be fun to watch. Edited by napoleon on 09 January 2015 at 5:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| ijsn Diglot Newbie Brazil Joined 3558 days ago 12 posts - 19 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English Studies: Spanish | Message 7 of 12 10 January 2015 at 4:45am | IP Logged |
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I could understand that you are really focused on improving your
comprehension. I would advise you to follow Steve Kauffman method. Just read tons of material using Lingq or Readlang (cheaper). Taking into account all the effort that you have made, I think you're close to the breakthrough. Just need to learn more words (I agree with Ezy Ryder). Good luck! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Al-Malik Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member United Kingdom arabicgenie.com Joined 6948 days ago 221 posts - 294 votes 1 sounds Speaks: English*, German*, Spanish, Arabic (Written), Dutch, French, Arabic (classical) Studies: Mandarin, Persian | Message 8 of 12 10 January 2015 at 9:34am | IP Logged |
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I think you've shown great dedication and have put in a lot of time and effort. However, from your description it seems that you have not had the chance to have conversations with native speakers? In my experience, this is one of the keys not only to better speaking, but to much better listening comprehension. If there really aren't any native speakers in your vicinity, you could try to arrange lessons online (italki or the like). I'm sure you'd notice a vast improvement after only a few dozen such conversations.
Aside from that, you might find it worthwhile to go through the video clips on the Aswaat Arabiya, starting with the beginner material. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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