Bachelor of Languages worth it for me? (Advice Center) Language Learning Forum

Bachelor of Languages worth it for me?
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38 messages over 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Speakeasy
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 3841 days ago
507 posts - 1098 votes

Studies: German

Message 33 of 38

04 February 2015 at 3:00pm | IP Logged

Hello Cavesa,

No harm done. Your question was valid and I was free to answer it in any way I chose. There was absolutely no need for you to apologize for asking it. You merely stumbled upon someone who, when asked an apparently simple question, simply can’t shut up.

Guten schönen Tag!

1 person has voted this message useful

PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5265 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: French^B1

Message 34 of 38

05 February 2015 at 8:37am | IP Logged

Cavesa wrote:

I think you are mixing several points together in the inicial post (as is common when
someone considers a huge life change) and I wasn't able to draw from it the
number 1 main reason for a change. I think the priority is definitely the deciding
factor and that it is not reasonable to have too many factors as the main priority.

I like your thinking, I agree. I mixed many factors together which was probably a little confusing. Perhaps
you're drawing attention to it so I can focus on the main point. The reason I mixed so much was I guess to
hopefully gain some clarity on what was the most important (ie would a languages degree really seriously
open some major doors and therefore become the initial principal goal for example)

Cavesa wrote:

1.You want to change career from nursing. That would surely be understandable.
2.You want to get away from Australia. Sure, sometimes you need a change.
3.You want to live in France. So do tens of millions of others.
4.You are looking for a good degree that would widen your options and enrich your
life.

First of all, a bachelor in languages. I know many people who study an equivalent at
Czech universities. And truth be told, it is more about literature and humanities than
the language, so it is probably similar to the exemples already mentioned. Many of the
students are not that good at the language, considering the amount of invested time.
The degree isn't pushing them that much either in this area, you are around B2 to get
accepted, you are to be around C1 after bachelor and C2 after master. That means three
years full time between B2 and C1, two more between C1 and C2. Is that efficient? And
I don't even mention the funny moments like hearing a guy who studies French at uni
saying "sure, I should read all the needed books in French but I don't have time for
that, I read most in translation".

Secondly, a bachelor in languages is per se not a career giver, unlike engeneering,
medicine and so on.

I've made the 'solid' decision based on responses solely in this thread not to do the bachelor of languages. To
be honest it provides some relief as I'm happy to study on my own anyway.

Cavesa wrote:

I've been very interested in translating qualifications (I hope to
try such an exam during the autumn) and a common advice from organisations of
professional translators is: "have a paper on the language (preferably translation)
AND know something else as well. Being specialized, which in your case would likely be
medical language, that is a way to beat the competitors, especially those with
bachelor in the language. So, perhaps a bachelor in translation or an independent
certification, perhaps with a different degree, that might be a better choice.

This sounds like sound advice Cavesa. I think how I will approach my languages is like this: keep working
hard towards my personal goals, get the certification of language level as I go along this path, then if I get
motivated/ have the time to later down the track (not as my main goal) potentially pursue medical translation
qualifications if I can see it being a worthwhile investment (ie = plenty of work, maybe not as it has been
indicated on here this is becoming very competitive and my languages my not even have much call for
translators even medical in the near future if not already). So this point no longer is that relevant to me at
present and whereas the bachelor of languages is now not even a likely to occur, translation qualifications
currently are a low priority- again I've been able to arrive at this conclusion through advice via this thread
[/QUOTE]

Cavesa wrote:

Thirdly, as was already said, knowing French in France is a must, not an advantage
that will land you a job. France is flooded with immigrants and French is native or
secondary native language to many of them. You might have better chances with your
Dutch, Spanish or another european language and their countries.

A fair point, but not necessarily the case, still worth considering I agree. There are for example plenty of
immigrants in the Netherlands. No it's not much of a global language, but the population is much less than
that of France and due to former colonies of Indonesia and Surinam, plus the general north African migratory
patterns of which some filter through to the Netherlands too- still there's plenty of competition there as well.
As for Spain nurses last time i checked (few yrs back) were leaving Spain in droves due to saturation. So
there won't be any work there due to high unemployment and saturation in my field if that's what I chose to
utilise (more than likely). I don't mean to negate your 'broadening of my horizons', in fact I wholeheartedly
acknowledge it. I'm just saying while I consider it, it's not necessarily in these countries in which my language
(not as good as my french currently) could be utilized. Germany is no go for me. I have no German and
nursing conditions there are absolute trash. I would NOT work there at all, unless something changed in a
hurry. Italy is worse for nursing (some countries have a very low view of nursing and pay extremely poorly,
some countries like Australia, France, Spain, deem it a profession, the degree required reflects this and the
public respect it more so).

Cavesa wrote:

As to the relocation. I think this is a huge clash with the need to change career.
There are many translators, especially for combinations like En-Fr. Nurses are in high
demand in whole Europe, even though I know nothing about Australian education
nostrifications in the EU. And medical professionals of various kinds are extremely
demanded in France. However, mostly in areas the French are fleeing from (There is,
for exemple, high demand for foreign doctors to take care of the immigrant suburbs of
larger cities in southern France). So, it may be an unfortunate turn of events to move
to France with a degree in French, have troubles finding a different job, doing a
nurse again, getting a job in an area that is France only geographically. I'm not
saying living among other immigrants is wrong per se, but most people do not imagine
their life in France as a life mostly among Romanians, Arabs and Africans.

If the relocation is your priority, than do you want to just get away from Australia
or do you dream of France? You said you were already considering the Switzerland.
Perhaps you might like to look at other countries as well. Find more options and
decide. Many countries are more immigrant friendly than France, for example thanks to
not having that many former colonies and the millions of immigrants from there.
However, the Switzerland isn't known to be totally immigrant-friendly in some long-
term aspects, such as getting a citizenship. So, it depends on your plans.

Perhaps it may be interesting to get more information about other French speaking
countries. Belgium is different from France in many aspects and you native English and
some knowledge of Dutch may be a huge advantage. Or how about Quebec?

Okay first up France has been my dream for a long time. In fact when my wife and I relocated to NL in 2011
the ultimate goal was to get to France eventually. The weather isn't something my wife liked so much. We
decided if we tried again that we'd go directly to France. The reason we went via NL was for a few reasons.
1) I had some distant family there. 2.) I have a Dutch passport - more likely to integrate easier being in the
actual EU country in which I hold citizenship. 3) my wife didn't know much of any EU languages, thus I figured
with NL's high rate of English it would be less of a culture shock. 4) by going via NL and eventually aiming to
nurse there, France would then respect my Australian qualifications since NL has (that never happened).5)By
integrating into NL my wife could obtain an EU passport after a few years (also didn't happen).

So second time round we figured let's just go where we actually want to go- France. The reason I've looked
at Switzerland as a compromise is due to the difficulties in getting my Australian qualifications recognised in
France. Switzerland appears much less problematic and better working conditions. So the solution it seemed-
gain employment in Switzerland and live in France.

My wife is open to Belgium as am I. The weather isn't great but she is much more familiar with Belgium than
France. In fact she said she'd rather live in the Flemish area. I would be open to this. Still I think we would
eventually move to southern France if we wanted to stay longer term into retirement and so on. But that's a
lot of maybe's and what ifs.

We've often discussed Québec, and we are somewhat open to the idea, but not as much as Europe. Europe
really is where we want to be and Québec is North America- a continent that holds some interest for us but
nowhere near the same amount. To be perfectly honest I'd rather be surrounded with the more traditional
French environment. Perhaps that's too picky but I"m just being honest. I'd be happy to try a stint there after
being in Europe but not before, and then it's probably near my retirment anyway. I definitely want to visit
Québec so by no means do I not like the place :) Also I have an EU passport, neither my wife or myself hold
Canadian citizenship.

Thank you Cavesa for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. To really make the point, my main goal
is getting to Europe. Forget the Languages Degree, forget the Translation qualif's for the moment. France (or
perhaps another European country) is the goal

PM

Edit: This has been a really great discussion. It has really helped me sort some things out. I was debating
recently whether I'd restart Spanish or Dutch again as my next 'serious language'. I'm now feeling like it
should be Dutch as it's likely to open more doors in terms of my European employment prospects (Belgium or
even possibly returning to NL).

Edited by PeterMollenburg on 05 February 2015 at 8:44am
2 persons have voted this message useful

PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5265 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: French^B1

Message 35 of 38

05 February 2015 at 8:51am | IP Logged

AML wrote:

I would only do the university course for two reasons:
1. You need the degree for a specific job, or
2. You are not self-motivated enough to learn the languages through self-study.

Since the degree is by correspondence, then I can't imagine #2 is a problem for you.

It may be a better use of your time and money to learn 1-2 languages (French + one other) and
then get certified once you reach your goal stage.

Thanks for the reply AML.

In regards to doing the degree for reason number 1... it's not necessarily required now I've decided. I'm not
going to do as it won't open enough doors or even contain the content that i'd necessarily want to learn. And
in regards to your 2nd point. I'm definitely motivated enough now (since really deciding to put the effort in
properly late 2013 and joining this forum to gain motivation and assistance which has certainly helped me,
not sure I would've done anywhere near as much as I have without becoming active on here)... So I don't
need a uni degree to get me through the languages. Had I been asked the same question when I was 21 I
would've gone to uni had I had my time over (back then I did some uni units by correspondence using French
in Action and Destinos, having had a taste for self study I opted to continue on my own- that didn't work! that
was nearly 20yrs ago). Anyway being a last minute person I'm finding motivation out of the fact that I feel I
have left things late (i'm late doing everything it life it seems :) Ah well, all good, i'm doing well now I feel.

I agree. It is definitely better I think, now that I've had the confirmation from others via this thread that i'm best
off continuing self study :)

Thanks again AML

3 persons have voted this message useful

PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5265 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: French^B1

Message 36 of 38

05 February 2015 at 9:09am | IP Logged

Speakeasy wrote:

First, I would like to say just how impressed by the sheer quality and thoughtfulness of
the responses to Peter's request.

I couldn't agree more Speakeasy. Thanks everyone :)

Speakeasy wrote:

Second, as to Québec, I would say, "yes", one should, indeed, consider this destination! I've been here for
almost 30 years and have organized my life in a manner such that I very rarely speak English. However,
doing so was not as easy as it initially seemed.

Immigrants (including Canadian citizens from other Canadian provinces and territories) should be aware that
their professional qualifications are subject to review. To be quite frank, the system operates something like a
closed union shop. So, before deciding to immigrate, either make sure that the local organizations will
recognize your qualifications or that you can develop a quick path to recognition. Even medical professionals
whose qualifications are "above question" might find themselves required to requalify, if only partly so.

Although I indicated to Cavesa that Québec isn't really on the cards, I have out of interest read about the
processes involved. It seems similar to many other countres. ie To nurse there I'd need to pass a B2 level
French exam minimum (C1 would likely get me much further) and have my qualifications formerly assessed.

I have read many forums some have been from Québec and I'm sure I'd enjoy it there but Québec could
prove more difficult for me and my wife to integrate into than the EU given I have no 'ticket in' (think EU
passport that I hold). And I feel I am okay to sidestep France for other European countries, I'm not so keen to
take a big step in the other direction to Québec. Québec, as for many French learners, does hold interest for
me, but not to live, at least not initially. I'd be willing to go there down the track if the opportunity arose but not
initially. Call me narrow-minded, shooting off my foot whatever, but I really just want to get to Europe to be
quite honest.

Speakeasy wrote:

Additionally, the province's language laws stipulate that, in order to practice one's profession, one must
possess French at a level that is "appropriée à l'exercice de sa profession" which, from my experience, would
be somewhere around B2+. This includes not just a general knowledge of French, but also the ability to
manipulate the specific jargon of one's profession. New arrivals are typically given one year to acquire this
level of linguistic skill, after which they must meet with an examiner from L'Office de la langue française.
During this initial period, one's professional association is not permitted to admit the immigrant as a regular
member and cannot do so until the candidate submits a written attestation of linguistic competence from
L'Office. Rather obviously, failure of the exam can have serious consequences. So, an immigrant who
arrives "comme un cheveu sur la soupe" with expectations of being hired as professional runs the risk of
some disappointment. My advice to professionals who are considering immigrating to Québec would be that
they should communicate with at least (a) Immigration-Québec, (b) L’Office québecois de la langue
Française, and (c) their appropriate professional organisation. Please note that I am not decrying the
situation! I survived and even prospered ... you can too!

Yes this seems to be the blanket rule for many western countries. B2+. It has been argued in some circles
that it's simply a wy to curb immigration (NL has admitted large scale immigration was a failure post WWII to
nowadays), some say language laws were a way to cut down on immigrants. Perhaps perhaps not, and
despite this very law meaning my wife was unable to take a job she was offered in Rotterdam I
wholeheartedly agree with such laws as does my wife, as cultural dilution could become a major issue- and
being a language nerd and lover of various cultures, the more we do to protect them the better (hence why I
despise English being so rediculously widespread nowadays). Thus if/when we go anywhere to find
employment overseas I MUST have C1 or at the very least B2 qualifications. Which given Cavesa's
suggestions of looking further afield could see me actually close off the idea of Belgium or NL as even tho i'd
probably get relatively quickly back to B1, getting to B2/C1 takes a little more time and I'm currently solely
focused on French as I'm not willing to distract myself given the years of distraction that brought me very little
in terms of advanced language skills (too much wanderlust).

So, Speakeasy, I really do sincerely appreciate your response just like all the others on here, but Québec is
predominantly off the cards, but certainly not completely.

PM

PS I did read your further response to Cavesa on your experiences integrating into Québec. Thanks for being
willing to share :) it didn't go unnoticed and who knows maybe I will head to Québec. I've often said, never
say never as you never know what the future holds
3 persons have voted this message useful

Jimjam
Newbie
Australia
Joined 3775 days ago
19 posts - 22 votes
Studies: Japanese, German

Message 37 of 38

07 February 2015 at 1:41pm | IP Logged

I just read through this thread and it sounds like not doing the degree is your best bet. I was actually enrolled
in that degree last year but changed to a different university because I didn't really find their language
courses to be good enough. Don't get me wrong, UNE is a great university, but the languages are taught way
too slowly and not as well as they could be. After completing the degree, you would probably only find
yourself in the low B2 area, if you didn't put much supplementary study in. The Japanese course was even
worse (I was majoring in Japanese). Since you don't want to teach languages, there isn't really any use for a
degree in languages anyway.
3 persons have voted this message useful

PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5265 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: French^B1

Message 38 of 38

08 February 2015 at 12:36am | IP Logged

Jimjam wrote:

I just read through this thread and it sounds like not doing the
degree is your best bet. I was actually enrolled
in that degree last year but changed to a different university because I didn't really
find their language
courses to be good enough. Don't get me wrong, UNE is a great university, but the
languages are taught way
too slowly and not as well as they could be. After completing the degree, you would
probably only find
yourself in the low B2 area, if you didn't put much supplementary study in. The
Japanese course was even
worse (I was majoring in Japanese). Since you don't want to teach languages, there
isn't really any use for a
degree in languages anyway.

Hey Jimjam,

Wow I didn't really expect that- to come across someone who actually new about this
course through experience, so your comments are certainly very valued. Thanks for
sharing. I wasn't totally closed off to the idea of teaching, it's just that I'm not
sure it would really help me attain my main objectives. Your comments on the degree
help me feel rest assured in having settled on the right decision (not to do this
languages degree, or for that matter, not necessary any others either). I'm probably
not that far off B2 myself with French so the course probably would be useless. I'm
sure I can get to the same level in my other languages with past experience/future
interest much quicker and more effectively than this course can provide with the
materials that I choose to use.

Cheers Jimjam :)

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