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| soclydeza85 Senior Member United States Joined 3703 days ago 357 posts - 502 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 9 of 23 20 June 2015 at 7:39am | IP Logged | |||||
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When using the simple past vs present perfect, there tends to be a slight difference when used in English. Simple past is more specific, whereas the present perfect is more general. For example: I was at the store (as if I am talking about a specific time when telling a story). I have been to the store (as if I am saying that I have been there sometime before, but when I was there is irrelevant). Is this nuance the same in German? I'm talking specifically about the helping verbs, haben and sein; I understand one is more literary whereas the other is more conversational when used on verbs in general. For example: Gestern war ich im Supermarkt. Gestern bin ich im Supermarkt gewesen. What would these sentences mean to you? Is there a difference? EDIT: I actually stumbled across my answer shortly after posting this So from what I understand, "Gestern war ich im Supermarkt." and "Gestern bin ich im Supermarkt gewesen." could both be used to indicate that I was there at a specific time. But, Ich war im Supermarkt gewesen would indicate that I have been there at some point before, where when is irrelevant. Do I have that right? Edited by soclydeza85 on 20 June 2015 at 7:58am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Retinend Triglot Senior Member SpainRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4104 days ago 283 posts - 557 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish Studies: Arabic (Written), French | Message 10 of 23 20 June 2015 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Good question. I sometimes presume too much transference in tense forms. In this case is
it functionally equivalent to the difference between "I was in the supermarket yesterday" and "I have been to the supermarket"? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4317 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 11 of 23 20 June 2015 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I cannot think of any situation where this kind of distinction would be necessary.
Keep in mind that Upper German has lost the preteritum completely (but it was reinstated to some degree in some dialects ... mainly for sein and to lesser degree haben). There just doesn't seem to be any need to distinguish such minute differences, when the context is enough anyway. edit: But using perteritum and perfectum analogous to simple past and present perfect in English would still be correct Standard German - just don't assume native speakers would make this distinction, it might leave you confused. Edited by daegga on 20 June 2015 at 3:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4640 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 12 of 23 20 June 2015 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's not true. Using the Imperfekt for stating simple facts is still considered sub-standard, so it's "Gestern bin ich in den Supermarkt gegangen" and not "Gestern ging ich in den Supermarkt". The latter is only correct if it's part of a longer narration: "Gestern ging ich in den Supermarkt, da traf ich auf einmal Herrn Müller. Er fragte, wie es mir geht, und ging dann weiter." To answer the original question: No! German tenses and English tenses don't correspond in their usage. The standard time for talking about the past is the Perfekt in German, while it is the past tense in English. The Imperfekt is mainly used in written language and in longer narrations. However, for some very frequently used verbs, the Imperfekt is more common than the Perfekt. As a native speaker, I can't really explain the details, so maybe you should consult a good reference grammar about this. "Ich war im Supermarkt gewesen" is pluperfect (Plusquamperfekt) and refers to a time before the narration, which is reported in the Imperfekt. Edited by Josquin on 20 June 2015 at 11:30pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4317 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 13 of 23 20 June 2015 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | |||||
I had this in mind, the part about the regions where formerly Lower German was spoken. But I don't know how accurate this is. Edited by daegga on 20 June 2015 at 11:55pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| soclydeza85 Senior Member United States Joined 3703 days ago 357 posts - 502 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 14 of 23 21 June 2015 at 4:58am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for the explanations, guys. When you say that "Ich war im Supermarkt gewesen" refers to a time before narration, do you mean that it kind of sets the scene for another event that you would describe in the Imperfekt? For example, in English I could say something like:
I had been at the at the supermarket for an hour when I realized I was already late for my appointment. (where "had been" can be translated as "war...gewesen") In other words, you wouldn't really say it on it's own (maybe in some cases), but you would use it to set the scene to describe the Imperfekt, that you realized (Perfekt) you were late for the appointment. (I understand that you wouldn't describe "realized" as Perfekt/Perfect in English, I'm just using an English example to describe German grammar) ====================================================== On a different topic: This is something I've always wondered and it just popped in my head, I'm just curious. What do Germans say as "filler" words/sayings when thinking while speaking? For example, in English we say things like "you know" or "like" or "I don't know", etc. "I was, you know, standing there when this guy came up to me and, you know, he started yelling at me about something. I don't know, it was crazy. You know?" Edited by soclydeza85 on 21 June 2015 at 5:00am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4640 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 15 of 23 21 June 2015 at 1:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm from Northern Germany and I have passive knowledge of Low German. The North German tense system is by no means the same as in English, neither in High nor in Low German. It's true that Northern Germans use more Präteritum than South Germans, but it's still different from English.
You could always use "na ja", "irgendwie" or "so": "Na ja, da kommt dieser Typ und ich sage so: 'Was willst du von mir?' Und dann sagt er irgendwie: 'Nichts, lass mich in Ruhe!' Na ja, das war irgendwie komisch." You're right about the pluperfect. It describes the past of the past (so to speak). 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| soclydeza85 Senior Member United States Joined 3703 days ago 357 posts - 502 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, French | Message 16 of 23 22 June 2015 at 12:31am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks Josquin! That makes me think that all this time, when I would watch movies or shows, that they would use filler words like that, which I would take literally and it would confuse the hell out of me.
I wrote some sentences to practice the past tenses that have been discussed; please let me know if I'm using them correctly. (Excuse the sentences themselves, I was just thinking up random things off the top of my head) 1) Gestern, als ich zur Uni gefahren war, hat mein Freund mich angerufen. 2) Ich hatte damals in der Schweiz gelebt aber ich kann mich nicht mehr erinnern, woher ich meine damaligen Freundin kennengelernt habe. (what if I said "...kennengelernt hatte" instead?) 3) Ich habe gerade gefrühstückt aber ich bin nicht sicher, ob es echten oder künstlichen Eier(n?), dass ich gegessen habe. 4) Wenn er gestern mein Auto repariert lassen hat, dann kann ich heute nach Frankreich fahren. 5) Die kinder waren zur Schule gegangen während ich meinen Wagen abgestürzt habe. (what if I said "...abgestürzt hatte"? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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