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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Linguamor Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 6411 days ago 469 posts - 599 votes  Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 9 of 19 12 January 2007 at 2:55am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
In a word, yes. Grammar rules (actually formulations of grammar rules - the actual rules exist subconsciously in the brains of human beings) that are found in grammar books and language learning materials are often incomplete and/or inaccurate, difficult to understand for many language learners, and often quickly forgotten.
Yes, a language learner should, from the beginning, seek to develop target language linguistic intuitions, but developing these linguistic intuitions does take time. The sooner the language learner begins to expose himself/herself to meaningful language (comprehensible input), and the more meaningful language exposure he/she receives, the more quickly these intuitions will develop. Edited by Linguamor on 12 January 2007 at 3:05am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| tujiko Senior Member United States Joined 6326 days ago 140 posts - 144 votes Speaks: English* | Message 10 of 19 12 January 2007 at 3:09am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I'm a big fan of listening to lots of radio or reading lots of articles to develop a passive sense of sentence structure (which is another way of describing the linguistic intuition that separates natives, near-natives, intermediates, and beginners). However, to be able to produce native-sounding speech, I favor the FSI-type method of repeating and learning hundreds and hundreds of native sentences, until the phrasings and patterns of the language are internalized.
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| Linguamor Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 6411 days ago 469 posts - 599 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 11 of 19 12 January 2007 at 3:26am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Provided that the language learner is aware of the meaning of the phrases and sentences that he/she is learning and repeating, I would say that this counts as meaningful exposure to the target language and provides input for language acquisition. Edited by Linguamor on 12 January 2007 at 3:27am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| linguanima Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Australia Joined 6511 days ago 114 posts - 123 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, Mandarin*, Spanish, French Studies: Italian, Latin, German | Message 12 of 19 12 January 2007 at 5:45am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Can I call the FSI method 'the intensive input' and the uncontrolled immersive way 'the extensive input'? Do you think that one can get the language intuition with the extensive input only (this is how a child learns his/her mother tongue)? Or it has to be combined with the intensive one. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| tujiko Senior Member United States Joined 6326 days ago 140 posts - 144 votes Speaks: English* | Message 13 of 19 12 January 2007 at 11:22am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I imagine an adult can learn through EI only, but I don't see why one would want to. It's impossible to recreate the atmosphere of childhood, where literally everyone in the infant's life will either care for or try to share his/her language with the child. In addition, it takes children 5 years with this method to develop the vocabulary and grammatic control of 1st-graders (5-year olds), and this is on top of their near-complete dependence on care-takers (parents) and active use of the language starting around year 1. In other words, you aren't going to find conditions enabling you to get away with the way children learn languages once you're no longer a child. It seems far more effective to me to take advantage of the tools we're given as we transcend childhood into adulthood (learning), and use these to learn languages in months, instead of spending inordinate amounts of time trying to simulate childhood. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Linguamor Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 6411 days ago 469 posts - 599 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 14 of 19 12 January 2007 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
There is no need to recreate the atmosphere of childhood - the critical element is exposure to meaningful language. The language abilities of a 5-year old, i.e. native control of most of the grammar, and a vocabulary of several thousand words, - most of them learned after the age of three - are sometimes underestimated. The fact that it has taken five years to do this has much to do with cognitive development. Put that same 5-year old in a new language environment, and he/she will repeat the achievement within a year or two, this time to a 6- or 7-year old level. A language cannot be learned in months. Some of a language can be learned in months. The more exposure to meaningful language, the more will be learned. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Linguamor Decaglot Senior Member United States Joined 6411 days ago 469 posts - 599 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Danish, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Dutch | Message 15 of 19 12 January 2007 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
'Extensive input' will certainly work, but you will make better progress with 'intensive input' in the beginning. By this I mean you don't want to start encountering thousands of different words and all the grammar at the beginning. This can be overwhelming. Even children learning their native language are exposed to a restricted amount of unknown language at any one time. The important thing is that input be comprehensible. As your ability to comprehend increases, you can start to make use of 'extensive input'. Only 'extensive input' will provide the language data necessary to achieve a high level of language proficiency. Edited by Linguamor on 12 January 2007 at 4:45pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Raincrowlee Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 6495 days ago 621 posts - 808 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin, Korean, French Studies: Indonesian, Japanese | Message 16 of 19 12 January 2007 at 8:29pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
This jumped out at me and stuck me in the eye. I started studying linguistics in school, and I heard all about the critical period hypothesis, then came over to Taiwan and taught children for four years. The result of my experience is that I now see this as a non sequitur. There is a change, but it doesn't have to be biological. What is the difference between children and adult, other than the size? Experience. Kids are still trying to figure out how the world works on a fundamental level, and language is the tool that they use to keep track of the world and all the relationships in it. Their understanding and their native language develop hand in hand, so the development of sophisticated language is both necessitated by and the cause of a sophisticated grasp of the (physical, social, philosophical, etc.) world. As adults, we alredy know how the world works, or at least we think we do. We are not desperately in need of these tools, so we don't memorize them like madmen. We don't ask how to say "handle" or "button" or "toenail." And when we learn these words, we aren't discovering something new about the world, or grasping something we've dealt with for a while without knowing with certainty. We rely on our native language for that sort of knowledge, and our L2 is always weaker for it. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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