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International Phonetic Alphabet | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Art07 Groupie Russian Federation Joined 6216 days ago 61 posts - 64 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 81 of 94 16 January 2008 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
Actually, Edwin is a member of LingQ and a supporter of Zhuangzi's ideas. If you look at Zhuangzi's blog, you'll see that Edwin comments Zhuangzi's posts all the time and praises Zhuangzi's ideas. Edited by Art07 on 16 January 2008 at 2:27pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| edwin Triglot Senior Member Canada towerofconfusi&Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6466 days ago 160 posts - 183 votes 9 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French, Spanish, Portuguese | Message 82 of 94 16 January 2008 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
Art, if you look at my own blog, I also commented on some short-comings of LingQ. I am a supporter of any ideas that work great for me. BTW, I don't response to personal attacks in the forums. I report to the administrators right away. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7158 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 83 of 94 16 January 2008 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Edwin, it's a free country.
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| edwin Triglot Senior Member Canada towerofconfusi&Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6466 days ago 160 posts - 183 votes 9 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French, Spanish, Portuguese | Message 84 of 94 16 January 2008 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
Including freedom of speech? I cannot recall any of my posts either implicitly or explicitly forcing anyone to do anything. I was merely giving my opinion and experience with IPA. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7158 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 85 of 94 16 January 2008 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Of course.
You're not explicitly forcing anyone to abandon IPA, but some of your posts about IPA seem to ignore the constructive experiences that some people have had with IPA. It was even acknowledged by Cait and others that while it's not the be-all and end-all, it still can be useful. No one is taking the all-or-none approach when it comes to IPA. I haven't used IPA but I wouldn't shun it if it were a presented as an option for me to grasp pronunciation. Maybe one of these days I'll adopt a learning approach that uses IPA or even LingQ *gasp*. So far however, I seem to be getting by OK with my current approaches so I don't see the need to make any huge changes to my learning approach, nor do I see the need to discourage others from using methods that haven't worked for me. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Zhuangzi Nonaglot Language Program Publisher Senior Member Canada lingq.com Joined 7030 days ago 646 posts - 688 votes Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish Studies: Russian | Message 86 of 94 16 January 2008 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Edwin has shared his experience and ideas about IPA in quite a bit of detail. Who are these "inquisitors" who feel they can pass judgment on the contributions of others? What are their credentials. What is the point of calling one contributor as "bad" as someone else, or "exposing" or "reporting to the bully mob" that someone is a member of something, or telling people that they have made their point and should now desist.
I have no trouble accepting that Julie and others benefit from the IPA. I would not use the IPA nor recommend that a learner of mine use it. I prefer to focus on the relationship between the phonetic script of the language and the sounds of the language. If I take Mandarin as an example, the difference between ch and q becomes obvious from listening. The X sound as in xiang, xi, etc. was new to me and no symbol would help since a symbol cannot meaningfully represent something I have not heard before. In Russian if I see ж I do not think of another symbol. I do not think that is like "j" in French, nor "su" in leisure. I just get used to connecting the symbol with the sound. In Japanese is ふ fu or hu. It depends on the speaker and other factors. There are many similar examples. There is too much variability to try to nail these things down with artificial symbols, in my view. As I said in my first post I did not expect to represent a majority opinion, nor to persuade anyone. So, to those who know, use and like the IPA, I have no argument. I find it interesting to hear of their experiences. It does not make me want to change my mind, but I do not get excited, angry, upset that have different views. I just accept it. Learning of their experiences has enriched me. Similarly I appreciated hearing Edwin's frank and detailed comments of his experience. On the other hand I find the tone of many of the people who participate at this forum unpleasant, self-important, obviously not only towards me, but also here towards Edwin, and as a result I will be making myself scarce here, which should make many of you quite happy. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| CaitO'Ceallaigh Triglot Senior Member United States katiekelly.wordpress Joined 6859 days ago 795 posts - 829 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian Studies: Czech, German | Message 87 of 94 16 January 2008 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
I actually use LingQ, and I find it helpful for building vocabulary, but I can't say it's that helpful for improving pronunciation. I mean, no more so than any other learning method that involves listening and reading simultaneously. Now, one potential LingQ feature that could be helpful would be something in the included on-line dictionary that allows you to add the IPA to the flashcards you create. Or at least something that tells you were the stress should be. It's not always clear from the recording. For example, while I'm expanding my Russian vocabularly through LingQ, there's nothing in the interface that can allow me to annotate proper pronunciation. For that reason, I think it's a mistake for Zhuangzi to write it off as useless, when there very much might be a use for it, even in his own software. I'm not acting as a LingQ devotee. Some might like it, others not so much. It's about as wortwhile as the IPA when you think about it! Or anything. I mean, whatever floats your boat, right? Edited by CaitO'Ceallaigh on 16 January 2008 at 3:20pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| edwin Triglot Senior Member Canada towerofconfusi&Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6466 days ago 160 posts - 183 votes 9 sounds Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French, Spanish, Portuguese | Message 88 of 94 16 January 2008 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Cait,
Here is another shortcoming of IPA in a technical sense. It is just plain hard to get those symbols out onto your computer screen. There are potentially unlimited number of them. I would not be surprised if they come up with a pure ASCII version of IPA in the future. (or is there one out already?) Disclaimer: I am not ignoring any positive aspects of IPA other forum members have shared. I am not forcing anyone to abandon IPA. Any potential personal attack will be reported to the administrator right away. (I will probably need this disclaimer in all my future posts). Edited by edwin on 16 January 2008 at 3:23pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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