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What is "shadowing" ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| anavidi Newbie United States Joined 6704 days ago 24 posts - 24 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Persian | Message 25 of 35 16 May 2008 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | |||||
I have had the same difficulty. Shadowing a native speaker at natural speeds seems next to impossible. The closest I have come is to be able to shadow sentences at natural speed. How have other people dealt with this challenge or is this not a problem for others? Ali 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| freakyqi Newbie United States Joined 6128 days ago 32 posts - 43 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin | Message 26 of 35 17 May 2008 at 1:11am | IP Logged | |||||
Can you guys sing songs in your target language at the same speed as the singer? I know it's not the same of course, but maybe it could be a stepping stone. Though songs are not natural speech, they have a rhythm and pattern, and some can be a bit fast. I remember hearing a chinese song I wanted to learn. I remember thinking "oh WHY am I choosing this song?? It's got so many new words, and it's so long, and there's not much that repeats..." but I liked it, so I kept at it. At first I only sung some little easy parts of the chorus. Then I got the whole chorus down pretty well, and just a few random phrases throughout the rest of the song. But in a song you HAVE to keep up, you just skip words you don't know and just sing the words you do know. Now I can sing it alone, every word, without the music! I feel really good, and there are a few words in there that I've used in conversation. So my advice is relax & try it with a song first, OR just keep at it, and like my long difficult song, you'll get it eventually! Oh, and don't shadow slowly and fall behind the speaker and stop listening to him while you think of what he just said a moment ago, but rather keep up with the speed even if it means only saying a few words & leaving spaces blank. The spaces will get filled in eventually. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6892 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 27 of 35 17 May 2008 at 5:55am | IP Logged | |||||
It is only a problem if you think it is a problem. Don't think of it as a problem. But yes, it is a difficulty and an obstacle and imho there are solutions. First, you should take it step by step, shadow slower material and get to a certain level with that before you are ready to tackle natural native speed. You can determine when you are ready "by feel". It is normal for natural speed to be challenging but if it feels totally out of reach, do slower stuff first for a while. Make sure you use material that you have a transcript for. And you should realise it takes a lot of work and persistence even so. I am working on a natural-speed recording in mandarin right now. It's a recording of one minute duration only, and after three months of working with it I can do about a quarter of it, 15 seconds, rather well. That's how much work it can take! (not working only on that though, and I can't work on it every day). Generally, I divide it up into chunks of 1-2 seconds, anything from 2 to 4 words, put that on repeat on the computer and shadow it dozens of times. You need to have a brief pause between repetitions so you don't run out of breath. If there isn't enough space between the words on the recording, insert a half second or so of silence to achieve this. I usually shadow one individual chunk for about two minutes continuously, then rest for two minutes to give the vocal cords a break, and then do another two minutes. Once you get going it can be hard to find the patience to stop and rest for two whole minutes, but I think it is an important part of the process. About the walking, I do the shadowing in my room in front of my computer, jumping up and down on a trampoline which I find an ideal exercise to combine with shadowing. The level of effort is similar to a brisk walk but you stay in one spot while you are doing it. I practice shadowing a handful of these individual chunks during one shadowing session, maybe 4 or 5, one after the other, but I don't try to shadow them in sequence yet. Then I usually need to do exactly the same the next day, and the next, until they start flowing naturally. Only then do I start combining the chunks and try shadowing two or more of them together, in sequence, building up towards longer combinations, until that whole sentence starts flowing, and so on. Here's what I had to do with a couple of the more difficult parts, where the native speaker just seemed to stumble over the words, so that what was supposed to be four syllables only took as long as one syllable normally does. I took that chunk and slowed it down (with Audacity you can do it without affecting pitch). Then I shadowed the slowed-down version again and again, and successively increased the speed until I got that one flowing at natural speed too. Then I prepare mp3 recordings where each sentence is repeated 15 times. These I take along to listen and shadow to when I go out for a walk, or while jogging. Hope this helps. Edited by Hencke on 17 May 2008 at 6:22am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Emma Reese Triglot Newbie United States emmareese.blogspot.c Joined 6034 days ago 9 posts - 9 votes Speaks: Japanese*, English, Welsh | Message 28 of 35 17 May 2008 at 8:43am | IP Logged | |||||
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I do sing along with a CD, freakyqi, but only songs that are slow enough for me to manage. I should try to sing
faster songs. Thank you for your advice. Thank you Hencke for your detailed explanation of shadowing. I understand it well now and I'm relived too to hear that I'm not expected to shadow the entire audio! I'll start doing what you do except I don't have a trampoline! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| freakyqi Newbie United States Joined 6128 days ago 32 posts - 43 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin | Message 29 of 35 17 May 2008 at 9:15am | IP Logged | |||||
LOL!!! I actually busted out laughing there... LOL... In a good way, really. I'm a visual person, forgive me. It's a great idea really. I love smart innovative determined people. And this site definitely has some doozies. (silly mood alone this saturday night, I really did laugh in a GOOD way, really) Maybe I'll try some funky shadowing myself tonight... I have an exercise video with some repetitive moves... hmm.... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| freakyqi Newbie United States Joined 6128 days ago 32 posts - 43 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin | Message 30 of 35 17 May 2008 at 9:18am | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh! I found some material recently I want to try to shadow. There's a Chinese performance art called "crosstalk". It's like Abbott & Costello's "Who's on First?" routine, but a little more mellow. It's fairly natural speech, with two people. I'll check it out for myself, but my point is...
... maybe you can find some comedy sketches in your target language. Could be interesting. What kind of material does everyone use? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Emma Reese Triglot Newbie United States emmareese.blogspot.c Joined 6034 days ago 9 posts - 9 votes Speaks: Japanese*, English, Welsh | Message 31 of 35 17 May 2008 at 11:43am | IP Logged | |||||
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I use a CD of a novel or a course audio.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hencke Tetraglot Moderator Spain Joined 6892 days ago 2340 posts - 2444 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Finnish, EnglishC2, Spanish Studies: Mandarin Personal Language Map | Message 32 of 35 17 May 2008 at 8:57pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm glad if it was helpful. Just note that I wouldn't presume to be an expert or to tell you what you are expected to do. I just described how I do it myself, hoping it might prove useful. Apart from that, if I was studying an "easier" language than Chinese, I imagine I could do what I do now, but using longer chunks and fewer repetitions and make faster progress. Btw it shouldn't be too hard to get hold of a trampoline if you want to try it out. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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