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Moses McCormick’s admirable achievement | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery |  | |
| Po-ru Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5477 days ago 173 posts - 235 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: Korean, Spanish, Norwegian, Mandarin, French | Message 169 of 221 08 July 2011 at 8:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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The real question is, is Moses an established polyglot and the answer to me is Yes. His
speaking isn't perfect in some languages particularly the rarer ones, but he's proven himself in Japanese and Mandarin(at least what from what I know) to be able to communicate at a respectable level. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Midnight Diglot Groupie Czech Republic Joined 4636 days ago 54 posts - 111 votes Speaks: Czech*, English | Message 171 of 221 04 May 2012 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I mean nobody's forcing anybody to achieve fluency or even proficiency in the language they're studying. Let's say a person A starts learning Korean and quits after three months because it didn't click, then he starts learning Twi and becomes fluent in a few years. Then he starts learning Italian, but quits again. And so can Moses speak 50+ languages even though he's learned only a few of them thoroughly. It depends if you concentrate on the quality or the quantity. But going C2 in 3 languages and B1 in 20 languages are both achievements themselves. The only thing that's not to be admired is to learn "Where is the toilet?" in Turkish and claim fluency afterwards. Or to speak several languages and add up some extra one they have no clue about (I speak Tlingit, Manx Gaelic, Tatar, Shona, Mango dialect of Chinese etc.) just to look cooler. The reasone why most of us don't like the language SNOWBALLS is because they draw too much attention to themselves and that's only because laymen can't tell if we speak it or not. If I'd drop some random zhi zhi zhong chi chu shu qi sounds, people would think I spoke Chinese unless someone would have exposed me. I just don't hate anyone even though I don't like everyone of the YT polyglots (Considering Clugston ain't a polyglot)
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| clumsy Octoglot Senior Member Poland lang-8.com/6715Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5175 days ago 1116 posts - 1367 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Japanese, Korean, French, Mandarin, Italian, Vietnamese Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swedish Studies: Danish, Dari, Kirundi | Message 172 of 221 11 May 2012 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | |||||
Strangely there actually is something like this Mango Dialect Edited by clumsy on 11 May 2012 at 5:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Kronos Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5258 days ago 186 posts - 452 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 173 of 221 28 May 2012 at 4:29am | IP Logged | |||||
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Moses has always been one of my favourites, if just to see him rambling along. His pros and cons as a language person have already been dealt with in this thread, so I want to add some other points as to why I am fond of his channel.
Language-related I am impressed with his beautiful and neat handwriting that tends to border on calligraphy when he turns to exotic scripts. Likewise he has a gentle, pleasant voice and a special gift for accents. Apart from making the usual beginner mistakes he seems to hit the basic sound of any language quite easily and almost instantly. Can't vouch for this, that's just my impression. I once found myself listening to one of his Spanish readings with delight for several times, only later I noticed that with some words he put the stress on the wrong syllables. His occasional videos on ethnic and social issues are quality content, because they are first-hand and authentic, and provoke similar videos by other youtubers. Easy to understand that he is nevertheless reluctant to go public with this more personal stuff, but it works well and thanks to people like him such sensitive issues become more directly accessible globally now, freed from the anonymity of TV and press coverage. Most recently he is on a "level up" spree, meaning he goes to shops and Asian restaurants, striking up conversations with random people working or hanging around at those places. Many of them are obviously immigrants and often shy or reticent, and more than a bit wary of getting into closer contact with unpredictable strangers. Then comes Moses, without warning talking to them in their own language(s), or at least making the attempt, just a few words but persistently, and see what happens! People who you thought to be cold or uncommunicative suddenly warm up, sometimes changing into different persons altogether, and some ten or fifteen minutes later appear almost unhappy to let him go. I find this quite sensational. People on the forums mock his limited vocabulary, but he can do with a few words what others can't do with thousands. To me Moses is a great communicator from which I can only learn in this respect. No doubt many of us have had their share of bitter life experience and as a result have become cynical or uptight, or overly cautious. Moses makes us see things from a different perspective - the people we encounter in our daily lives, whoever they appear to be on the outside, may be even more sensitive and cautious than ourselves, for good reason maybe, we don't know them, and the best we can do is to open up to them and not take ourselves too seriously. This is easier said than done. But I have often observed that learning and practising languages opens hidden doors, and Moses has successfully done that. 22 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 TheGreaterFool Pro Member Canada Joined 4369 days ago 65 posts - 78 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Modern Hebrew, French Personal Language Map | Message 174 of 221 21 December 2012 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
Some excellent points about language learning! I have personally been struggling with the notion of fluency and knowing when I have become acceptably fluent. I like the idea of "fluent enough to have a meaningful conversation" which then opens it up for a wide range of how we define fluency. If I think about the typical conversations that I have during the day, they are for the most part fairly unpretentious and unsophisticated (unless I am talking specifically about something technical). For me to possibly have similar typical conversations in other languages takes the pressure off one's learning a bit. I am sure that many new language learners like myself are putting pressure on ourselves by thinking that native fluency is the ultimate goal even though many of us would simply be happy to be able to have simple yet meaningful conversations. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| TheGreaterFool Pro Member Canada Joined 4369 days ago 65 posts - 78 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Russian, Modern Hebrew, French Personal Language Map | Message 175 of 221 21 December 2012 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
It is definitely easier to throw rocks at someone who puts them out there on the stage than aiming for someone hidden in the audience... "Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt Edited by TheGreaterFool on 21 December 2012 at 7:36pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Sterogyl Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4364 days ago 152 posts - 263 votes Studies: German*, French, EnglishC2 Studies: Japanese, Norwegian | Message 176 of 221 15 March 2013 at 11:20am | IP Logged | |||||
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With all due respect, I absolutely acknowledge and admire what he has achieved (!), but in my personal opinion, it's better to master few languages than to attain a basic/low-intermediate "Teach Yourself" level in a 50. I doubt he can even understand one of his foreign languages to a reasonable (C1) level (maybe his Chinese is already good enough, I don't know, but his Japanese certainly isn't), let alone writing and speaking. If it's okay for him it's good! But I think in his special case it's okay to critisize it because he's making money with his teachings. In my opinion he's a hobbyist which is fine, but I don't think his language learning methods are anything revolutionary or special. However, I believe his videos can be quite motivating for some folks. Only my 2 cents, now you can rip me to shreds. :D
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