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Feanarosurion’s Finnish Journey | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5278 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 9 of 59 27 June 2010 at 5:55am | IP Logged |
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Kiitos, Chirel! I actually want to study at the University of Helsinki, potentially even move to Finland permanently. Right now I'm just trying to increase my vocabulary to be honest. I think I focused much too hard on the grammar, and picked up very few words for the first couple of years. Now, I can understand most sentences, but I don't know half of the words in them, if that. But I really appreciate your offer of help. Perhaps when I know more words I'll try to write this log both in English and Finnish. Maybe I'll try just one sentence though...
Ehkä kun tiedän enemmän suomen sanoja, yritän kirjoittaa tätä päiväkirjaa sekä englanniksi että suomeksi. Toivon että kirjoitan tätä lausetta hyvin... OK, that's two sentences I guess. Either way, I hope I'm not doing to badly with that. I had to look up a couple of words for that sentence too, and I'm not sure if I used "sekä...että" properly as well. I guess I'll find out eventually. No harm in trying anyway. As far as my progress today, I've been able to log the rest of my old Anki deck into the new form. Now I'm taking a bit of a mental break, but I might try to push through some more of my textbook and find some new words later tonight if I'm feeling up to it. I'm still as excited as ever for my Finnish studies though, and I'm hoping that next week I can really devote myself to some intensive reading and sentence mining. Edited by feanarosurion on 27 June 2010 at 5:56am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| chirel Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5307 days ago 125 posts - 159 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: French | Message 10 of 59 27 June 2010 at 8:35am | IP Logged |
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The first sentence is good, and in the second one is understandable, but would be better like this: Toivon, että
kirjoitin tuon lauseen oikein/hyvin. Tuo = that, tämä=this You are referring to the previous one, so "tuo" Tempus is imperfect, because you already wrote the previous sentence, it's in the past. Object is in accusative since you are referring to the whole sentence. Hyvin=well, oikein=right, correct Well done, writing in Finnish! Do keep up with it in the future. I'm looking forward to reading your log in Finnish :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5278 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 11 of 59 27 June 2010 at 9:31am | IP Logged |
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Kiitos taas, Chirel! I always forget when to use Tuo instead of Tämä. And Accusative is something I'm just learning to be honest. My teacher told me always to use Partitive for objects until I was used to it, so even after I figured out Accusative, my reflex is still towards partitive. Just on a side note, is there always supposed to be a comma before "että?" I see it all the time and I'm just wondering whether there's some rule about that. I mean, it makes sense, but there are certain times where I wouldn't think to use a comma, that's all. Anyway, thanks very much, I really appreciate this.
Paljon kiitoksia! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| chirel Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5307 days ago 125 posts - 159 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: French | Message 12 of 59 27 June 2010 at 11:12am | IP Logged |
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Yes, a comma before että if it's alone. So not in front of sekä-että or other such structures. If you have a
structure with two conjuctive words (what should I call these in English?) then the comma is usually between the two, but depending on the sentence it might be in front of them both. So: Nauroin niin, että putosin tuolilta. I laughed so hard I fell of the chair. Juoksen kotiin, niin että ehdin nähdä lempisarjani televisiosta. I'll run home so that i can watch my favourite show on TV. I hope this makes sense. The case for object is among the most confusing things in the Finnish grammar for those who are learning it, so you can expect to make some mistakes for a long time. Partitivive is often a good bet. The basic difference is: partitive for incomplete things, partial things or ongoing processes. Accusative for complete and finished things. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5278 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 13 of 59 27 June 2010 at 11:32pm | IP Logged |
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Oh, OK, I see the difference now on both counts. I definitely understand the difference between the comma placements and what difference it makes to the sentence. Actually, it's weird, I can tell the difference it makes in Finnish, but it doesn't seem to make much different in English. As in, I can understand the difference when I see it in Finnish, but not if I actively translate it. So I see what you're getting at for sure, but it makes more sense to me in Finnish than in English. Which I'll take as a good thing to be honest.
As far as Accusative, I see the difference between it and Partitive, and I can generally figure out where each one is more appropriate. I just forget to use Accusative most of the time. The example that's most clear to me is this: "Luin kirjaa," or "Luin kirjan." "I read (part of) a/the book," or "I read (a/the whole) book." I guess it could work as "Söin omenaa" and "Söin omenan." "I ate part of an apple," and "I ate the whole apple." As far as an ongoing process, I'm guessing it would be "Syön omenaa," "I'm eating an apple," as opposed to "Syön omenan," "I'm eating a whole apple." Please let me know if I'm on the right track with this one. In this way, is accusative mostly used in the past tense to denote that something is completed, and partitive is used in the present tense to show that it is going on or will happen? If that's true then that makes sense to me. I know there are cases where accusative is used in present tense, such as the question "Saanko yhden/kahden/sadan omenan?" because the person is asking for the entire apple or apples, not just part of them. Still that's the only time I can think of where accusative would be used if it goes by that rule. Hopefully I'm making sense here, I'm really not sure in this case to be honest. OK, log time I guess. Last night after my last entry I went through my textbook and found a number of new words, and I added them into Anki which was good. Still I was already quite tired so I was mostly just writing the words down then typing them into Anki, so I'll probably have to review the context a little bit later on. Still, I'm still going through the early part of my textbook, and for the most part they haven't introduced any useful sentences just yet, so the context is more just a bunch of pictures with word captions for example. Towards the middle of the book the whole thing switches gears and then it's all dialogs and paragraphs, so there will be a lot more context to go on at that point. On another note, I watched Aladdin in Finnish last night, which was fun. It's my favourite Disney film, so I was happy when I finally got a hold of it. I think that's the first time I've watched a whole Finnish film in one go to be honest. I've also got The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Hercules, The Little Mermaid, and Mulan with Finnish audio, plus the English editions as a control I guess. I picked up a lot more than I thought I would though, which surprised me. My listening comprehension has obviously gotten a lot better on its own, which is certainly a very good thing. I'm not even close to natural listening just yet, but I'm encouraged to know that I'm making progress. Now, I'm aware that much of what I here in these Disney films needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because they're trying to match what's already been animated. However, I think these are going to be good resources for me, because in my books, the more I can hear the language the better. I might try to find some more Finnish movies just for that purpose in fact. Anyway, I'm hoping that I can get some solid studying today later this afternoon. Now that I'm caught up with Anki, I think I'm ready to get back to some intensive reading and sentence mining. I meant to do some of that last night, but just looking up words was mentally draining for me, so I think that will be a little more possible now that I've had some rest. I'll probably make another entry later tonight if I get a solid study session in. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5278 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 14 of 59 28 June 2010 at 4:38am | IP Logged |
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Just a quick update. I realized that I didn't include any past tense verb forms in my verb model for Anki, so I just added those in. Thankfully it was a pretty easy matter of adding new blank forms in then just filling them in for all my old verbs. I only have 55 right now too so that made it pretty quick and easy. I can't decide whether to include the past tense verb forms in my main vocab cards though. I don't know if I need to see the past tense forms every time I see the cards, but I might do it anyway just in case. Either way, it might be good to have a set of past tense forms sitting around, so I'm glad I put those in. I was also able to do some sentence mining and add some new vocab earlier this afternoon, which was fun. I'm running out of hard copy flashcards, so I'll probably need to print off a new batch sometime tomorrow. All in all, it's been a good day, and I might get another couple of hours in later this evening.
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| fielle Diglot Groupie Japan maliora.com Joined 5267 days ago 53 posts - 69 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: German | Message 15 of 59 28 June 2010 at 6:07am | IP Logged |
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Why don't you add some anki flashcards that ask you to convert to present/infinitive/whatever it is in Finnish tense to past tense? Instead of having the past tense form on your regular Finnish to English cards or whatever.
It sounds like you're at the point where you know enough to make pretty good progress, especially if you're concentrating on increasing your vocabulary. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5278 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 16 of 59 28 June 2010 at 6:48am | IP Logged |
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I've been thinking about that too. At this point though, I'm just wanting to absorb vocabulary in general. I think I'm going to start training specific forms after my vocab has really started to take off, and when I'm starting to worry about conjugating forms on the fly. In other words, when I'm really working on activating my vocabulary and working on thinking and speaking. Right now I'm more worried about passive vocabulary, because that's really been my weak point right from the beginning. Once I'm more comfortable with that and I'm training other areas more extensively, then I'll focus more on drilling conjugations and verb forms. Right now it helps most when I'm plugging in the conjugations into a new card, and then if I see them when I review that helps too. So I might do that.
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