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Feanarosurion’s Finnish Journey | ||
Tags: Flash cards | Finnish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| chirel Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5319 days ago 125 posts - 159 votes  Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: French | Message 17 of 59 28 June 2010 at 8:08am | IP Logged | ||
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You got the examples with apples and books right.
About partitive: - it's used as object in sentences with negative meaning, indefinite amount and incomplete process and with some verbs (emotions) - the rest have some kind of accusative About tempus and modus: (I had to look these up in a grammar) -imperative, passive --> accusative object - I didn't find anything about tempus. And when I try to think of sentences it doesn't really seem to make a difference. Syön omenaa. (now/future) Söin omenaa. Syön omenan. Söin omenan. The only thing that matters is whether the process has limits or not. Did it end in the past? Is it ending now? Will it definitely end in the future. If the process doesn't have clear limits, then the object is in partitive. Now for your example with numbers: one, two three four apples... There is a very clear and strict rule that applies to numerals. I give you examples: minulla on yksi omena -> otan yhden omenan -> en ota yhtä omenaa minulla on kaksi omenaa -> otan kaksi omenaa -> en ota kahta omenaa minulla on kolme omenaa -> otan kolme omenaa -> en ota kolmea omenaa minulla on sata omenaa -> otan sata omenaa -> en ota sataa omenaa So yksi behaves differently, it changes into accusative in positive sentences and the rest into partitive. Also notice that yksi is in nominative in the first example while others are in partitive. "Kahden omenan" is not possible as an object. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5290 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 18 of 59 28 June 2010 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | ||
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Wow, that's quite a lot to process. I'll probably have to come back to this a few more times just to let all this sink in. I think I'm beginning to understand the practical difference between partitive and accusative. Am I right that you're essentially saying that if the limits aren't known my the speaker, it should come in partitive? As in, it should only come in accusative if the meaning is clear to the speaker, and it definitely ended in the past or is dealing with the whole object? So if there is doubt or it is unclear, it would come in partitive?
Also, with what you're saying about grammar, are you saying that if a sentence uses an imperative or passive verb, the object is always accusative? That makes general sense. I'm not sure if I understand passive completely, but that makes sense for imperative. The limits would have to be defined by the speaker so as to be able to give orders I guess. In terms of the numerals, that makes a bit more sense to me now. I've seen yksi behave that way before, changing the object to nominative, but I thought all other numbers flexed to accusative as an object. It makes sense for them to be in partitive in a negative sentence though. Please let me know if I'm on the right track here or not. Kiitos! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| chirel Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 5319 days ago 125 posts - 159 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: French | Message 19 of 59 28 June 2010 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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You're welcome. I think you got everything right. There might be exceptions or other surprises that I can't think of
right now though. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5290 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 20 of 59 29 June 2010 at 1:31am | IP Logged | ||
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Ah, hyvä! Paljon kiitoksia ohjeesta, Chirel!
Today, I passed a small personal milestone. I filled out my last paper flashcard, coming to a total of 360. I know that's an odd number, but I printed 20 pages of a 6 x 3 grid, so when I cut them out it was 360 in total. I've added all those words into Anki, and now, I'm going to have to print off another batch. That may not seem like very many words in the long run, but I'm very happy to have gotten this far and still be motivated. I also took a bit of a break from my usual texts, which are currently limited to my textbook and the bible, both of which can get rather dull at times. I actually went through some Finnish song lyrics, particularly that of Moonsorrow. I know I probably won't encounter many of the words they use in everyday speech, but it feels good to enrich my vocabulary with some words that I hear in the music I listen to all the time. Later this evening I plan to print off that new batch of flashcards, then sit down with my textbook and tackle a new chapter full of vocab. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| GREGORG4000 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5532 days ago 307 posts - 479 votes Speaks: English*, Finnish Studies: Japanese, Korean, Amharic, French | Message 21 of 59 29 June 2010 at 2:19am | IP Logged | ||
Imperative or passive (which isn't really a passive but more of an "undescribed group") can take partitive. When they take a singular, accusative object, the object takes the nominative form, instead of the genitive form. With plural you don't have to worry about that type of weirdness. Nothing changes in the partitive. Syö omena! Syön omenan. Syö omenat! Syön omenat. Me syodään omena (colloquial way to say "we will eat the apple", using a combination of the "me" pronoun and the "passive" form). Me syömme omenan. Söin omenaa (I ate some apple). Söin omenan (I ate the apple, completely). I think those are right. Edited by GREGORG4000 on 29 June 2010 at 2:21am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5290 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 22 of 59 29 June 2010 at 4:27am | IP Logged | ||
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Huh. Again, that's a lot to process. I think I see what you're getting at, but I think I'll come back to those examples and look at them a little more closely at a later time. Kiitos!
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| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5290 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 23 of 59 30 June 2010 at 1:25am | IP Logged | ||
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So far today has been a pretty good day with my Finnish. I've noticed that my listening comprehension has been getting better and better just from having Disney movies in Finnish on in the background as I plug cards into Anki or something. I'm beginning to get used to the speed of talking, and I'm recognizing more and more words. Granted, I still don't know enough to be able to properly understand what was going on in the movies if I didn't know them in English, but still, I'm picking up more and more words regardless. These are often words I've only seen or heard once or twice as well, so the fact that I'm recognizing them with so little exposure is encouraging. I studied a new section of my textbook today as well, and added a new batch of cards into Anki. I've been adding vocab every day since reformatting my deck, so I'm going to make it my goal to maintain that. I think I've resolved all my issues with Anki as well, so now I'm just going to work on expanding my deck, reviewing thoroughly, and studying my texts intensively. I think this routine is going to work for me, but we'll see I guess.
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| feanarosurion Senior Member Canada Joined 5290 days ago 217 posts - 316 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish, Norwegian | Message 24 of 59 01 July 2010 at 7:24am | IP Logged | ||
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Today has been another good day in terms of language learning. I did quite a bit of sentence mining, and I added a number of new words to my Anki deck. I found out that I'm probably seeing some Finnish friends in about a week or so, and if so, it will be good to see how much progress I've made in the last couple of weeks. I've been keeping all my Finnish Disney movies on in the background while I've been sentence mining, and I'm really enjoying just having the sound of the language around me during the day. Other than that, today was pretty boring. I'm settling into a bit of a routine, and hopefully I can dive into some more intensive reading in the next couple of days too.
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