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Andanzas Extranjeras: Team Ñ - TAC2011 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5335 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 73 of 137 16 June 2011 at 11:24am | IP Logged | |||||
Ach ja, de makkelijkste woorden ontglippen je altijd op de slechtste momenten. Daar heb ik ook heel vaak last van. Maar je weet in ieder geval zeker dat het allemaal veilig in je onderbewuste ligt opgeslagen dus met een beetje oefenen komt het vast in een mum van tijd weer terug. Wat ik me trouwens afvroeg, hoe is je accent in het Nederlands? Aangezien je de taal als kind veel hoorde stel ik me zo voor dat het best goed is. Edited by ReneeMona on 16 June 2011 at 11:28am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5566 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 74 of 137 20 June 2011 at 5:21am | IP Logged | |||||
Harstikke bedankt Renee. Ja denk ik dat zodra ik weer de taal meer gebruiken, dan zou (hopelijk) alle de woorden en grammatica straks weer naar mij terugkomen. Maar is zeker dat ik weer een cursusboek over het Nederlandse grammatica moet doen als ik mij met de taal weer bekend maken wil. Met mijn accent, hmm.. Denk ik die ik alles goed uitspreken kan, en toen ik afgelopen jaar het Nederlands een heel veel aan het studeren was, heb ik een paar nederlandse mensen op het markt ontmoet wie gedacht dat (of die? kan ik altijd ieder gebruiken?) ik echt Nederlands was. Dus volgens mij moet ik alleen maar alweer naar de taal luisteren en spreken en dan zou hij weer hopelijk goed uitkomen. Wij zullen zien. Ook kan ik je iets vragen? Een heel makkelijk vraagje, maar hoe drukt je uit ‘should’ in het Nederlands alweer? Zoals ‘ik should iets doen’. Ik ben het helemaal vergeten. Sorry voor het slecht Nederlands Renee! Castellano: Pues este finde ha sido bastante bien. Fui cazando en los cerros que rodean la ciudad ayer por castañas con una amiga mía, sólo encontramos cinco, pero después de pasar diez minutos en el fuego, eran riquísimas. Bien valían la pena. También tomé muchas fotos de los contornos y toda la flora y fauna que crece a este tiempo del año. Como hongos, fresas silvestres, y ramas caídas que eran cubridas con el gélido rocío del víspera. Además había una neblina que rodeaba y abrazaba todo, dar al paisaje un sentido de intimidad. Después disfrutamos de una cena sabrosa con rábano picante y mostaza al lado del hogar. Estudios - Ahora mismo estoy hasta unidad 9 en el libro intermedio y tengo 2273 entradas en Anki. Además estoy para ir a la biblioteca para recoger Harry Potter y El Prisionero de Azkaban lo que empezaré esta tarde. Polski: Still getting my head around the sounds and how to pronounce words simply by looking at them. Which I think is going to be a task which will take quite some time. However by the end of the day I should be done with the first chapter of Colloquial Polish and onto the second. Have also started a Polish Anki deck. Will try to write something in Polish as soon as mentally possible. Hasta pronto. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5335 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 75 of 137 23 June 2011 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | |||||
Dat en die zijn allebei aanwijzend voornaamwoorden en betrekkelijk voornaamwoorden maar alleen dat is een voegwoord dus als je een zin hebt als “Ik denk dat..”, “Het lijk erop dat..” enzovoort, kun je alleen dat gebruiken.
Ik denk dat “should” technisch gezien een cognaat van “zouden” is maar het betekent “would” dus moet je er “moeten” bij zeggen om hetzelfde over te brengen. Dus “I should do my homework” vertaal je als Ik zou (eigenlijk) m’n huiswerk moeten maken. Het woord eigenlijk wordt er ook vaak bij gezegd om dat idee van een niet nagekomen verplichting te versterken. Maar dat zeg je dus als je hetgene wat je moet doen niet aan het doen bent. Als je gewoon zegt “I should do this (so I’m going to do it now)” dan kan je ook gewoon ik moet dit doen zeggen. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5566 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 76 of 137 30 June 2011 at 7:40am | IP Logged | |||||
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Español:
Un poco sobre The Road, por Cormac McCarthy. Hace unos días terminé The Road. Un libro acerca de sobrevivencia en la faz de todo que sea malo y débil dentro del hombre, sobre la fortaleza de voluntad, y de la fuerza de convencimiento. Todo esto para “Llevar el fuego”, es decir, para mantener todo eso que es bueno y honorable del hombre. Hay dos, en un mundo de humo y cenizas, un padre y su hijo que siguen La Carretera al sur, esperando que haya más luz y calidez, y alimento para encontrar. Este viaje es largo y duro, que les ocupa mucho tiempo. Andan con bolsos plásticos atados a las pies, una manta sucia encima de los hombros, y con un carrito de la compra lleno de todas las cosas que han descubierto y encontrado en casas y fábricas abandonadas, lo que llevan a rastras por la ceniza y nieve. Por las noches tienen que esconderse en los bosques o en sitios escondidos de manera que no se les encontre. Porque hay otros que siguen viviendo, pero que han perdido todo que los hizo humano. Los otros han recurrido a comer a los demás que han sobrevivido, los buscan, los cazan, recorriendo el negro paisaje en un coche grande que corre de petróleo encontrado y robado. Todo el mundo teme todos los demás. Todo que pueden hacer el padre y el hijo es continuar al sur, esperando y luchando para El Fuego. También es una historia sobre la relación entre el padre y su hijo en estos duros tiempos. Cómo tratan de mantener una vida algo normal pese a les enfrentan tales espantosas cosas, y cómo tratan de imaginar un futuro mejor, a pesar del hecho de que sepan lo que venga. Un libro oscuro, aún con esperanza.. por menos que haya. I've been quite good since last I wrote. Have read 7 chapters of Harry Potter, added a bunch of new words into anki (currently at 2422), and am up to Chapter 12 of Intermediate Spanish. Have also been listening to lots of Spanish radio over at Radio de España, which has lots of great podcasts available on many a subject. So all and all, doing quite well and enjoying my Spanish. Nederlands: Ik ben een nieuwe lijst in Anki eindelijk begonnen, en heb ik ook één of twee keren met mijn moeder gepraat op de telefoon, maar dat is helaas alles. Meer om te komen. Renee - Dank je wel zoals altijd, en ik zal nooit meer tussen die en dat fouten maken (hopelijk). En ja, zouden mouten. Dat is het! Hartsikke bedankt en ik hoop dat je een heel mooi weekend hebt. Polski: I've been studying my Polish daily the last couple of days and it's starting to take root in my mind. Also the first little glimpses of it's complexity have started to shine through, and I'm only up to chapter 3 thus far (!). Also my first experience with the workings of a case! Or rather a much more noticeable and traditional case system than it's English equivalents. Quite exciting to finally encounter it since I have always been quite uncertain as to what exactly a case system in a language did. I knew there was inflection, to signify and show I believe yet am still unsure, the role a certain word within a sentence has and the action that it is performing, but this has always been a rather foggy notion, as I've never used it consciously in practice. Also the whole idea of the nominative, vocative, accusative, etc, what do these things ellude to? I have never learnt these things and so am completely ignorant as to what exactly they are referring to. Soon however I think it will become much clearer, and I think it will give me a much better understanding to all languages in general. As usual I'm still finding it rather tricky knowing how to pronounce things, and also to follow with the dialogue, but again, it's getting there, and it's starting to take the first shining glimmers of form. So now for my first little piece of 'learning to crawl' Polish. Czytam książkę się nazywa Las Venas Abiertas de América Latina. Jest bardzo ciekawą i fascynujący. Język polski jest bardzo skomplikowany i trudny, ale ono jest bardzo piękny. No to do zobaczenia. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5566 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 77 of 137 05 July 2011 at 4:13am | IP Logged | |||||
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Polski:
Kocham język polski, jestem uzależniony! Kocham on dźwięka, jest bardzo różnorodny i zróżnicowany. Niczym knieja. Nie mogę doczekać mogę mówić on dobrze. Słucham radia polskego i rozmawiają dość szybko, ale na szczęście jasno. Ma bardzo miły rytm. "I'm loving Polish, I’m addicted! I love the sound of it, it’s so diverse and varied. Like a forest. I can’t wait until I can speak it well. I’m listening to Polish radio and they’re speaking quite quickly, but thankfully clearly. It has such a nice rhythm". - I know it sounds very child like but just thought I'd try and write something, despite it being very early days. And if any Polish natives read it, sorry for the mistakes! Also yesterday whilst listening to Radio TOK, I actually recognised a word or two, such as dobry wieczór (good afternoon), dzisiaj (today/nowadays) and wszyscy (everyone). I'm having a lot of fun with Polish thus far and I'm looking forward to seeing what it holds for me in the coming weeks. Do jutra! Lulu! Żegnam! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 6105 days ago 707 posts - 1220 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 78 of 137 05 July 2011 at 10:56am | IP Logged | |||||
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Glad you're enjoying Polish and making progress Vos.
I've been studying it for 11 months so far and it's been a very rewarding, although at times highly bewildering, experience. And I agree, it has a lovely refreshing sound. Here's a few things I do that may be helpful: 1. Give it a massive amount of time to start with. I played around with it a couple of years ago and gave up in frustration. I found I couldn't 'slip into it gradually' with a casual 30 minutes here and there. It's so different that in order to build up to a critical momentum I needed to study 4 hours a day to start with. You've got to get into orbit fast or the gravity of this language will keep you stuck on the launch pad for ages. Anyway, that's what I found. Now I can do about 2 hours study a day and still make a decent rate of progress, although I still prefer to do more if I can. 2. Those consonant clusters looked very scary to start with, like speaking just after a visit to the dentist! By constant practice (Pimsleur, reading out loud etc.) I can tackle most new words without too many problems. BUT: the 'dz rz cz dż ć ż dzi' sounds need a lot of attention because native Polish speakers can detect the slightest difference. The 'ch' sound is also quite tricky depending where it is in the word and what letters precede / follow it. One good thing about pronunciation is that it's very phonetic, so there are not too many surprises later on. 3. Grammar. I often find myself grumbling at the complexity! I tackle it by first getting an overview of what's involved. I make personalised charts and tables of declensions, conjugations etc. but don't try to commit to memory anything at first. Then I pick on ONE feature of grammar and study it intensively. I once tried to learn all the noun declensions simultaneously, but for me it's better to pick on one case (say the genetive) and focus on that. Scan the books for when that one feature appears, listen out for that feature in audios, put examples of it into Anki. Get a good grounding in it before moving onto the next thing. I look forward to following your progress....powodzenia! 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5566 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 79 of 137 08 July 2011 at 10:22am | IP Logged | |||||
Thanks for that Mooby! At present I can easily do at minimum 2 hours a day as I'm on holidays, however when uni starts up again that's going to be a bit more a challenge. But will aim to atleast do an hour a day once back. Luckily however as from the end of this month I'm going to be starting Polish school, which will be an extra 2 hours a week with a native speaker and experienced teacher. So I'm hoping that will be quite a boost for my Polish and will add some quality in regards to time to my studies, and will also help me with the pronunciation and recognition of those difficult consonant clusters. That's rather amazing to read that they can tell the difference between all those different 'dr rz cz...' sounds especiallyduring fast speech (of course they can!), as at the moment they're all pretty much one homogenous wooshing/swirling sound to me. Although I'm not to bad with the 'dz' and 'ż' sounds. And yes, indeed, the 'ch', especially when followed by a 'w' like in 'chwileczkę', is quite the challenge. In regards to grammar, I think what you mentioned is a very good plan of attack, and is something which I've done with Spanish and which I'll be doing with Polish once I have a general overview of the language. My plan at the moment is simply to work through 'Colloquial Polish', use 'We Learn Polish - An Elementary Course' as a kind of supplement, listen to lots of Polish radio, and then have my classes every week. Then once I'm feeling kind of familiar and getting used to the language, I'll seek some intermediate materials and start reading some basic texts and stories etc. What have you been using in regards to materials and ways of exposing yourself to the language? Have you been going to classes or getting help/practice from some Polish friends etc? Thanks again for the observations and advice Mooby, I'm looking forward to the challenge! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 6105 days ago 707 posts - 1220 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 80 of 137 08 July 2011 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
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2 hours a day is good, in fact more than I'm putting in just now.
I started with Pimsleur (1-16 lessons) just to get a grasp on the sounds, stress and basic vocabulary. Although I've got Colloquial Polish, and will go through it one day; my first course book was 'Polish in 4 Weeks' (REA Marzena Kowalska). Ignoring the 4 week tag it's pretty good. Now, this may be a bad habit I don't know, but rather than going through one course book at a time, I use several simultaneously. Rather than be led by the curriculum what I've been doing is to let my natural curiosity about the language lead me. So for example, if I want to study only verbal aspects I'll look at what all my books and online references have to say on the matter. I may totally ignore noun declensions for a few months until I've satisfied my curiosity on the subject in hand. Of course other people prefer a more holistic approach, but with something as complex (to an English native) as Polish I need to examine the constituent parts separately. I'm hoping that it'll 'all come together' in conversational practice. I read Polish stories (aimed at 10-12 year olds) for 20-30 mins everday as my bedtime reading. I also listen to a 30 minute Polish TV serial (Samo Życie) available online at IPLA. What I really need now is a conversational partner, fortunately I have several possibilities that I just need to act on. I did attend a Polish evening course for a few weeks but it was too 'recreational' and I found it didn't progress fast enough. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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