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Andanzas Extranjeras: Team Ñ - TAC2011 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5339 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 9 of 137 13 January 2011 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Hey Vos, heel veel succes en plezier met je talen dit jaar!
Jammer dat het niet wil lukken met je Nederlands. Maak je er maar geen zorgen over hoor, die dingen gebeuren. Ik snap wel dat je moeite hebt met Nederlands oefenen met je familie als ze Twents spreken. Dat is één van die dialecten waar ik zonder transcript echt geen snars van versta. Het gaat me nog aardig wat moeite kosten om je log te volgen als zo'n groot deel ervan in het Spaans is geschreven. Ik denk maar zo dat het een goede voorbereiding is voor als ik zelf ooit de tijd heb om Spaans te beginnen. Jouw liefde voor de taal en de mensen heeft in ieder geval weer voor wat extra motivatie gezorgd. Nogmaals, ik wens je heel veel succes toe dit jaar, zowel in je taalkundige streven als in de rest van je leven. ;-) Edited by ReneeMona on 31 January 2011 at 11:09am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5570 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 10 of 137 14 January 2011 at 3:35am | IP Logged | |||||
Hey Renee, leuk van je te horen. Ja het is jammer, ik versta mijn familie wel, maar zij me niet. Wat kan je doen? Een groote deel van de reden toen ik eerst de taal begonnen heb was om dichter bij mijn familie te komen, en als zij geen zin in hebben om in het Nederlands met mij te praten, de motivatie en genot verdwijnen snel. Maar ik denk dat zij juist niet hebben begrepen hoeveel het betekend aan mij om in het Nederlands met zij te kunnen spreken (die zin kilnkt een beetje raar). Dus het is niet een kwestie van schuld (fault?), maar alleen een jammer een slechte uitslag. Maar als ik heb gezegd, ik moet alleen wachten tot ik naar Nederland komen, dan kan ik goed (en gelukkig) de taal lernen. Misschien zal ik hij iets later in het jaar weer beginnen, want hou ik van de taal wel, en elke tijd dat ik schrijf of hoor de taal het maakt me herinneren me hoeveel ik het leuk vind. Bedankt voor de aardige woorden Renee, en zal ik vanaf nu in het Engels schrijven ook. Hoewel het zou echt geweldig zijn als je het Spaans begint!... Wens je een ontzettend mooi jaar! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5339 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 11 of 137 14 January 2011 at 4:47am | IP Logged | |||||
Wat sneu dat je familie geen Nederlands met je wil of kan spreken. Maar het is inderdaad niemands schuld. Voor hen is het misschien raar om ineens Nederlands met je te spreken als ze gewend zijn Engels met je te spreken. Ik vraag mijn moeder altijd of ze Frans met me wil spreken maar na een paar zinnen schakelt ze altijd weer over op het Nederlands, heel irritant.
O nee, breng me niet in de verleiding! ;-) Ik stort me op het moment helemaal op Frans dus als ik er Spaans bij zou doen zou ik waarschijnlijk in de war raken. Maar ik ben zeker van plan om na Frans zowel Italiaans als Spaans te leren, ik twijfel alleen nog over de beste volgorde. En je hoeft voor mij geen Engels te schrijven hoor. Ik gooi je posts gewoon door Google Translate en zoals ik al zei, ik vind het wel een goede manier om alvast wat Spaans op te pikken. Edited by ReneeMona on 06 February 2011 at 2:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5570 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 12 of 137 17 January 2011 at 4:26am | IP Logged | |||||
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Se escrito anoche
Este fin de semana he estado haciendo up poco de leer y jugando frisbee en el parque con unos amigos que no he visto en muchos meses. Además el sábado estuvo la cumpleaños de mi abuela, ¡ochenta y tres años! Y aún iendo bien. Menos que dos semanas hasta que tengo que dar la vuelta a Melbourne y empezar (empezar - should I be using the infinitive or the imperative there?) la cacería para una casa nueva, ojalá que no tardare mucho para encontrar una. Y en el primer fin de semana que estaré allí, tengo dos conciertos grandes. Entonces últimamente he estado leyendo un libro de Thereau se llama Walden, sobre sus experiencias y pensamientos mientras vivir en una casita de madera que construyó él mismo en el bosque. Vivió allí por unos dos años, sólo sobreviviendo en su mayor parte de lo que sombró y creció él mismo, y del alimento mental y espiritual que trae la naturaleza. Es un escritor muy descriptivo y fluido, y ya que se escribió (¿o se fue escrito?) el libro hace un tiempo largo, más de ciento y cincuenta años, hay muchas palabras de inglés viejo, como whence, thy, hitherto etc, que me gusta bastante. Lo recomiendo si alguien está buscando para un libro nuevo a leer. Un libro importante, hoy en día especialmente.
Ja, die is het precies. Echt precies. En alweer, die is precies hoe het is met mijn moeder ook, ik probeerde voor ongeveer 5 of 6 maanden, en altijd gaat ze terug in het engels te praten. As you said, that's just what she's used to.
I didn't know that you could do that... And are the translations any good? Understandable? Readable? I can just see Apple, Google or some other large company making some ipod sized translation device which people can carry around with them anywhere, which records what someone says and translates it into whichever language one needs at the time. I hope that day never comes. Although even if it did, it still wouldn't surpass (not by a long shot) the understanding and depth of meaning which two people speaking the same language to each other can create, nor would it allow for that fluidity and sense of connection which occurs through the art of communicating. There's some things which simply can't be replicated by machine, one being that knowledge and feeling which you get, when you know that the person to which you are speaking is receiving and understands your words, and the meanings, thoughts and feelings which you're trying to get across through them. Well I look forward to being able to help you with a language one day Renee, Godspeed with your French! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5339 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 13 of 137 17 January 2011 at 11:40am | IP Logged | |||||
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I would never trust Google Translate enough to translate my own words for me but the translations are usually understandable apart from some minor points. For some unknown reason it often leaves out entire verbs or adverbs of negation but these are usually noticeable because they make the translation sound weird. For instance, it translated "con unos amigos que no he visto en muchos meses" as "with some friends who I've seen in months". That sounded pretty weird to me so I went back to the original text and saw that you used "no". It helps of course that I know some French, Latin and Italian so Spanish is not completely impenetrable to me.
The quality of the translation also depends on the language. I sometimes have my own writing in Dutch translated to see what comes out and the word order is clearly a problem, because what comes out is barely readable and often distorts what I said to such an extend that my original point is completely lost. Translations of Romance languages are usually better, which may have to do with their word order or maybe the translators are simply better because Spanish and French are such popular languages.
I shudder to think of the day when people go on holiday with little electronic translators in their pockets. Not only because it will diminish the value of all the hard work of all of us on this forum but also because for me it would take a significant amount of enjoyment away from travelling. I'm one of those Europeans (I say "one of those" because I refuse to believe that I'm the only one this nostalgic and sentimental) who still bemoans the introduction of the Euro because using a different currency in a different country was one of my favourite things about being on holiday when I was a child. And you're right of course. I don't see how any translator could ever convey the feeling of really understanding another language and the connection it creates. Even between languages as closely related as Dutch and English, I still sense a definite difference between the feeling of the languages so I imagine the difference is even bigger between completely unrelated languages. And of course there will always be words and phrases that are simply untranslatable. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5570 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 14 of 137 21 January 2011 at 5:20am | IP Logged | |||||
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Entonces acabo de recibir un disco doble por Chambao que se llama 'Caminando', que parece ser un ‘mejor de’.
De todas formas es música muy tranquila y linda, y desde que puedo comprender, las letras son muy bellas también. ¡La música española!... ¡Ay! Tan bien... ¿He mencionado que me chifla el español? Vale vale, estoy seguro que todos os estáis hartando de oír eso. Pero no falta nunca (it never disappoints? refering to language). Chambao - Pokito a Poko Además he estado presentado justo (I have just been introduced?) a la lenguaje coloquial de España. Por ejemplo, cuando uno pronuncia la palabra ‘emocionado’ como ‘emocionao’ - ‘está muy emocionao de la fiesta’. Por lo visto el uso de esta construcción es un poco jovén (según Notes in Spanish), pero mucha gente lo usa, especialmente en la música. Además no estoy seguro si este ejemplo siguiente es lenguaje coloquial, o sencillamente un rasgo de ciertas provincias de España, ya que he oído que en Andalucía hacen esta, esta iendo, que cuando hay un plural de una palabra, no se pronuncia la última letra, que es siempre ‘s’, como todo sabe. Así que, ¿es esta lenguaje coloquial? ¿O más bien variación regional de la lenguaje española? Una otra cosa que he encontrado es el acortamiento de ‘para’ a ‘pa’, lo que he oído muchas veces en canciones. So I just got a doble cd by Chambao which is called ‘Walking’, which seems to be a best of. Either way it’s very calming and beautiful music, and from what I can make out, the lyrics are beautiful also. Spanish music! So good... Have I mentioned that I love Spanish? Ok ok, I’m sure that you’re all getting sick of hearing that. But the Spanish language never dissappoints. Also I have just been introduced to the colloquial language of Spain. For example, when one pronounces the word ‘emocionado’ como ‘emocionao’ - ‘está muy emocionao de la fiesta’. Apparently the use of this construction is a bit teenage, (according to Notes in Spanish), but many people use it, especially in music. Also I’m not sure if this next example is colloquial language, or simply a characteristic of certain provinces in Spain, as I’ve heard that in Andalucía they do this, this being, when there is plural of a word, the last letter isn’t pronounced, the last letter always being ‘s’, as everyone is aware. So, is this colloquial language? Or just regional variation of the language? Another thing that I have come across is the shortening of ‘para’ a ‘pa’, which I have heard many times in songs. Study Update - Anki - Now 1354 in deck - Colloquial Spanish 2 - Chapter 9 - Been reading a few articles from Veintemundos, listening to lots of Spanish music, and listening to Spanish podcasts (Notes in Spanish Intermediate). Which surprisingly I’m actually understanding a good 70 to 80% of, which is fantastic and was highly unexpected. Although when ever I watch a film or tv series, that comprehension rate drops dramatically. ¡Qué frustrante! I think it’s a matter of getting used to the speed in which they speak, and then being able to understand the meaning of the word at the same time of it’s recognition, instead of moments after. It’s almost like I can see the two parts in my brain - Recognition - Comprehension - and their both slowly trying to build a bridge to each other. At first they were just attaching notes to rock and then throwing them over the abyss, hoping that the message would reach the other somehow. Now I think they’re at the rope over the canyon stage, some will make it, some will fall, but the one’s that do, take a bit of time to reach the other side. However as the line to cross the rope is always growing and increasing, relative to the amount of words making it over, due to the element of time involved, some words simply never get the chance to make it across. Time to start working on bringing in a zip line I think. Multiple zip lines. And hopefully one day that elusive instantaneous comprehension device (I believe commonly known as 'fluency'). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| nuriayasmin Senior Member Germany Joined 5247 days ago 155 posts - 210 votes | Message 15 of 137 24 January 2011 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo contigo. También me gusta Chambao pero prefiero cantantes como Chayanne o Enrique Iglesias ... sí, lo sé y admito que a veces soy una persona muy superficial pero que puedo hacer, me gustan los hombres guapos como Chayanne ;-). Bueno, me alegra que sigues tan bien con tus estudios de español y para mí puedes repetir cada vez que es un idioma bonito y extraordinario porque pienso igual. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5570 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 16 of 137 31 January 2011 at 10:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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Perdona por la ausencia estas semanas pasadas, pero acabo de mudarme de vuelta a Melbourne, y de momento
estoy sin hogar, buscando por una casa nueva en que vivir durante el año. No me gusta este proceso. Debido a esto, mis estudias de lenguajes ha sufrido un poco. Sin embargo con un poco de suerte, tendré una casa nueva pronto, y puedo empezar una vez más mis estudias. Sorry for my absence these past weeks, but I just moved back down to Melbourne, and am at present homeless, looking for a new place in which to live for the year. I really don't like this process. Due to this, my language studies have suffered slightly. However with a bit of luck, I will have a new place shortly, and can once again carry on with my studies.
Jajaja.. ¡Igual deberías cerrar los ojos cuando escuchas música!.. hablo en broma, es sólo que no me gusta Iglesias. ¿Has oído Manu Chao? Tiene un disco se llama 'Clandestino', es perfección, y él es muy guapo y muy bueno también. Edited by Vos on 31 January 2011 at 8:48pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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