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Felt like an alien | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5532 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 9 of 18 28 May 2012 at 12:57am | IP Logged | ||
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I've noticed something similar (but in a positive way) with my Korean studies. The more Korean TV I watch, the more I understand, but *not* just due to learning more words. A lot of what you don't understand early on is more due to lack of context. For example, if someone were to say a very well known catchphrase in a cute way and they respell the on-screen text to reflect this pronunciation, the words themselves will likely make no sense to you (and looking them up may turn up nothing). However, if you are already familiar with that catchphrase then the meaning will be obvious since you now "get the joke". Similarly, vocal impressions on variety shows tend to be far funnier now since I often know the person they are imitating and get *why* its funny.
That reminds me of something that happened the other day. I was browsing back through an old Korean vocabulary mining notebook I used to keep (I use a different method now that doesn't involve a notebook, but I still mine words the same basic way) and noted a few words where I'd given up on finding the meaning and marked them as CNF (could not find). For several of those entries, it is obvious to me now why I couldn't find them. Some are obvious intentional misspellings of a real word, but without already knowing the real word, that writing meant absolutely nothing to me. Now with more context the meaning is obvious. In a similar vein, one of the shows I've been heavily watching in Korean is a celebrity karaoke show (도전 1000곡, for those of you studying Korean that want to check it out). While they do include a few recent pop songs on that show, the vast majority are older songs (of a variety of genres) that are very well known by South Koreans. After hearing many of those songs numerous times on this show (and seeing the on-screen lyrics to them), I instantly recognize them and can often sing along to much of the song. Since these are songs that nearly everyone there knows, they are useful to know for background cultural reasons. In fact, now that I think about it, this is a really big "pro" for using heavy amounts of immersion for language learning. Without very large doses of immersion you simply won't learn these things. Understanding everything people say isn't horribly useful if you still don't quite get what's going on due to lack of context that is considered "general knowledge" for a speaker of that language. I do have to concur with cathrynm's final sentence above, though, that I'm not sure you can every truly "catch up" no matter how much time you spend at it. Doesn't mean you can't try, though, right? 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Swift Senior Member Ireland Joined 4605 days ago 137 posts - 191 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, Russian | Message 10 of 18 28 May 2012 at 3:46am | IP Logged | ||
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Of course you can never catch up completely! I am from America but I have lived in Ireland for the past five years. When I talk to my friends or visit them, it is a bit hard to take in all the new local slang for the first few days. Having not payed a lot of attention to American culture since I left, I am often out of the loop on songs, celebrities and anything that I don't see in Europe. In 20 years, this gulf could be huge if I have not moved back to America, possibly leading to a situation similar to yours. Equally, even if I understand Irish slang and culture better than I did when I arrived, I will never understand them completely, even if it they are fairly close to those of America, relatively speaking. So I think you really shouldn't feel down about your difficulties; unless you are surrounded by a culture from the day you are born until the day you die, you cannot hope to understand its every pop culture reference from your lifetime! As someone who probably enjoys languages a lot (considering you are here), isn't it better to dabble in several cultures, even if you will always be an outsider outside of your homeland (possibly in it if you dabble a lot)? Except your conclusion soberly and enjoy the things you can learn and the joy of always being able to learn more! Yes, situations like the wedding do arise, but what about all the other interactions you have that you probably enjoy? Besides, if you put aside your worries of not understanding cultural obscurities, things will probably be easier. [apologies for the lack of paragraphs, I am using a phone]
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| Nguyen Senior Member Vietnam Joined 5090 days ago 109 posts - 195 votes Speaks: Vietnamese | Message 11 of 18 28 May 2012 at 4:07am | IP Logged | ||
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This may sound funny but I have experienced quite the opposite effect. I have benefited alot from being in these kind of social situations. Maybe I just like to party too much though?
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| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5259 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 12 of 18 28 May 2012 at 4:54am | IP Logged | ||
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English is my native language. A few years ago, when I first started living in England, I had some similar experiences. I know nothing about football (soccer) in general, the English national team history or obscure British 1960's/70's/80's TV sitcoms. I was in a pub quiz and had no idea what the vast majority of the questions were about. Of course, I was able to answer all the obscure ones relating to the US, which made my table-mates quite happy. My mates knew all the obscure British stuff and we ended up winning the quiz, despite my total lack of knowledge of the all-time greatest striker in the Premier League!
Once, I was taken to see a performance of a popular comedian, and got very few of the pop cultural reference jokes. After a few years of living there, I started to get more and more of the cultural references because I was living in the culture. I used to wonder why the mere mention of "Cliff Richard" was funny, now I know. Perhaps if I had spent 20 years living there, as @July says, I'd know why there are so many references to turnips on "Blackadder". What is up with Baldrick and turnips? I once asked an English Blackadder fan that question. His answer- "A turnip's a funny vegetable". Baldrick- Dream Turnip I agree, but I still wonder. My point is, if I can be that befuddled in my native language, albeit in a foreign culture. I would have little hope in a second language. It's one thing to learn a language or two, or three to a very high level- it's quite another thing entirely to learn another culture. Edited by iguanamon on 28 May 2012 at 5:29am 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Aurellia Newbie Czech Republic Joined 4832 days ago 10 posts - 15 votes Speaks: Czech* Studies: English, Italian, Spanish | Message 13 of 18 22 June 2012 at 12:53am | IP Logged | ||
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Ahhyes. The Czech parties and family reunions. One just can't get enough of them.
You don't have to be a foreigner in order to feel like an alien there. Trust me. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| sctroyenne Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5388 days ago 739 posts - 1312 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Irish | Message 14 of 18 09 July 2012 at 1:18am | IP Logged | ||
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I think this is the most fun stage. French television has all kinds of really long
variety shows - I saw one on 80s music and one which pitted all of 70s pop culture against all of 80s pop culture which taught me a lot of things. I watched some sketches by Les Inconnus (a major pop culture reference themselves) and their sketches are filled with references. I found a book at one of the schools I taught at which was a history of all major televised events. And Virgin Megastore was running a promotion where an editorial staff identified all the essential "cult" pop culture items. Many were American but many others were exclusively French. The learning process makes me feel awkward sometimes - a bit like Data/7 of 9/the Doctor trying to learn what love or humor is but eventually I get it. There's a lot I still don't know but I'm still learning and it's fun. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Majka Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic kofoholici.wordpress Joined 4654 days ago 307 posts - 755 votes Speaks: Czech*, German, English Studies: French Studies: Russian | Message 15 of 18 09 July 2012 at 10:27am | IP Logged | ||
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To put the whole experience in perspective - you can feel alien even if you are native.
The "Czech" cultural background isn't as compact as it seems - there is quite a strong generational gap - I have slightly different "TV classics" than my sister-in-law, who is 10 years younger than me. The older generation (meaning people now in their forties and older) did grow up watching the same films at Christmas every year. They were looking for the last day of year, because then everything stopped and Mrazík (Jack Frost) was watched. This is actually a Russian film, shoot in 1964. And it has become a synonym of Christmas for us. I am something of an alien among my colleges, because I stopped watching TV 3 or 4 years ago completely and I am not very interested in current Czech cinema or popular music. I am keeping with small children because of my nieces but I know only names of current sitcoms and popular TV series and novellas. The only TV experience I have is when watching TV with my parents or my brother's family - and it shows. I have seen recently a knowledge test - and failed - because I lack big part of current cultural reference in my native language. And big parts of lunchtime conversations go over my head. And yes - I wouldn't be alien at the wedding - this is something I lived through. But in another 10-15 years? Who knows... 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4856 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish | Message 16 of 18 09 July 2012 at 11:46am | IP Logged | ||
Are we much different now? 'Home Alone', rings a bell? :) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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