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Average Joe/Jose takes a level test | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4947 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 1 of 80 21 June 2013 at 3:59am | IP Logged | ||
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In their own language.
I'm talking about the average in the street person, from any country. You have them take a language level test. Do you think they could pass a C1 or C2 in their native language? The other thread about C2 being possible made me think of this. I actually think many natives would not pass a C2 test, but probably a C1. Thoughts? Edited by outcast on 21 June 2013 at 3:59am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Fuenf_Katzen Diglot Senior Member United States notjustajd.wordpress Joined 4367 days ago 337 posts - 476 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Polish, Ukrainian, Afrikaans | Message 2 of 80 21 June 2013 at 4:35am | IP Logged | ||
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That's a tough one, and one which I probably should allow people with experience taking those exams to answer. If we assume however, that the average native speaker does not receive an education past high school (or the equivalent in other countries), I think it would be difficult to pass a C2 without preparation. Theoretically the vocabulary *should* be there, but the academic nature of the test and those abilities might not be. Someone who has some degree of post-secondary education would probably be in a much better position.
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 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5530 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 3 of 80 21 June 2013 at 4:51am | IP Logged | ||
I asked my French tutor about the DALF C1. She used to actually grade these exams, and here's what she had to say:
Apparently, the problem is that the DALF C1 is a "diploma" exam, which means it tests both your raw linguistic knowledge and your ability to handle some specific academic tasks, such as writing a synthèse (more details). So a native speaker with weak reading comprehension and writing skills might have trouble with some parts of the exam. Or so I'm told. The DALF isn't the only upper-level exam that France organizes, and some of the other exams may be less academically oriented. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| eggcluck Senior Member China Joined 4699 days ago 168 posts - 278 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 4 of 80 21 June 2013 at 9:01am | IP Logged | ||
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I took that mock test thing on the Cambridge website and it put my English as a C1 because I got one question wrong ( vocabulary) and it said my mother was a B2, she never went to university and stopped schooling at around 14. Edited by eggcluck on 21 June 2013 at 9:02am 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4620 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 5 of 80 21 June 2013 at 9:53am | IP Logged | ||
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If you haven't been near an exam situation in many years then the process could be daunting. I've had a drivers licence for over 20 years and have never had any convictions or form of accident, yet would I actually pass a current driving test with no prior preparation? Edited by beano on 21 June 2013 at 11:00am 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5007 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 6 of 80 21 June 2013 at 10:36am | IP Logged | ||
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I believe the C2 would be impossible (and perhaps C1 hard) for worse educated Joes.
Firstly the writing part. (I have seen emails by an MBA who had trouble to put together a sentence that would make sense at first reading (sometimes it was wrong and nonsense even at the second or third reading), so I wouldn't limit the endangered population to formally low education only.) Secondly, there might be a trouble at speaking as many people, with worse education and job where it doesn't matter, speak informal or very informal language all day long every day and they spend their free time with similar friends and soap operas where their vocabulary doesn't grow over the years. What I'd be interested would be the comprehension parts. Some of the election results and similar things make me doubt whether an average Joe or Jane understands the newspapers, the television, the billboards and so on. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Lakeseayesno Tetraglot Senior Member Mexico thepolyglotist.com Joined 4332 days ago 280 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Japanese, Italian Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 7 of 80 21 June 2013 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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While not bound down by the same criteria used in CEFR testing, I'd say the same goes for JLPT N2 and N1 (essentially C1 and C2 level testing, respectively). Seasoned native Japanese teachers have told me THEY had trouble understanding some of the reading and listening material in N1 (and we're talking about people who study the language for a living).
Also, on separate ocassions, two relatively cultured friends (but not teachers) took a peek at the material I was using to prepare for N1 and told me that many of the terms used were absurdly academic, and that they'd never even used some of the kanji used in it. So maybe, for an Average Joe, testing a C1 while unprepared might be hard but not impossible (depending on the person, obviously), but testing C2 under the same conditions would be a whole other enchilada. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6595 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 8 of 80 21 June 2013 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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When I came back from my Finnish exam I told mum she'd not pass this in Russian. Not because she's uneducated but because of the format and because she's more of an arts person and for example picking out the three main reasons or two conclusions or whatever would be tough.
It also strongly reminded me on the graduation exam I had in Russian, though. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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