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Team Exploradores - TAC 2014 TEAM Thread | ||
Tags: Papiamento | Galician | Team Thread | Catalan | Portuguese | Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) | Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 169 of 204 09 March 2014 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Obr1gada!
I recently wrote *hizó, lol. MrWarper wanted moarrr Spanish questions... Los Italianos pierden las guerras como si fueran partidos de fútbol y los partidos de fútbol como si fuesen guerras. why is it fueran/fuesen rather than the same form? to avoid repetition or is there some subtle difference that I'm not seeing? would it be fine to use fuesen in both clauses? Edited by Serpent on 09 March 2014 at 9:17pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Crush Tetraglot Senior Member ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5865 days ago 1622 posts - 2299 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto Studies: Basque | Message 170 of 204 15 March 2014 at 11:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I would use "fueran" in both instances, but i don't think it really matters. In Latin America the "-se" forms aren't used all that much, whereas i believe in Spain it's a bit more mixed, with some areas tending towards the -se forms and others more towards the -ra forms. The -ra forms can also double as the past perfect (había ...-do), for example, "El hombre que esperara tanto resultó ser un vividor sin escrúpulos" (el hombre que había esperado tanto...). Here you can only use the -ra form, not -se, though it's not really used very often anymore outside of legal stuff. You can find it in older books, though.
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| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5226 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 171 of 204 16 March 2014 at 10:43am | IP Logged | ||||||||
It doesn't. They're 100% interchangeable...
...even doubling as "past perfect", sorry :) For whatever reason instances of use seem to pop up in packs, though, so alternating -ra and -se is a way to aim at euphony / avoid cacophony / sound pompous / your pick. These are (or were, I'm not sure any more) taught at school as "fuera o fuese", etc.
I think you're mixing it up with the "future subjunctive" (-re forms), which has indeed been relegated to legalese ("quien robare...") and a few set phrases (e.g. "Donde fueres, haz lo que vieres", i.e. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"). But I'm curious about those books you mention. There's always something to learn from books :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 172 of 204 10 April 2014 at 3:38am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I found a beautiful distinction :') I don't think it applies to Spanish huir?
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 173 of 204 10 April 2014 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Agora uma amiga disse (no twitter): "nunca mais são 20:05h para ver o Benfica". Já vi frases assim muitas vezes, e claro que realmente ela mal pode esperar, mas então porque é "nunca mais"? Edited by Serpent on 10 April 2014 at 4:12pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5166 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 174 of 204 10 April 2014 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Only that "fugir a" sounds rather literary ('fugir às suas obrigações, fugir aos seus
compromissos". We just go on saying "fugir da responsabilidade" (there's also that idiom 'fugir da raia'). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5226 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 175 of 204 10 April 2014 at 11:46pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
It does, just like it applies to English "flee to [ex. safety]" / "flee from [ex. danger]" :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4290 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 176 of 204 11 April 2014 at 12:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Regarding -se forms, I use them almost exclusively for the imperfect subjunctive,
because it reminds me more of the Latin equivalents. -ra forms are actually originally the synthetic pluperfect indicative (pluscuamperfecto de indicativo no compuesto), that was derived directly from Latin, but somehow merged into an option for the imperfect subjunctive in Spanish. In Hispanoamerica, they do seem to use -ra forms more, but some even use -se forms instead for the imperfect subjunctive and conditional, but not usually. Some use both to break monotony, and some just pick one or the other because it sounds nicer to them. The Latin forms of the pluperfect indicate for "essere" are "fueram, fueras, fuerat, fueramus, fueratis, fuerant", similar to the Spanish -ra forms. The synthetic pluferfect indicative is still used in Spanish, but not as much, and usually in written language. One can say something like, «Supe que ya saliera» in place of the commoner, «Supe que ya había salido» by using the synthetic pluperfect, the same structure as the -ra form. They also use it in speeches. One can see that he says, «...la que les enseñara el General Schneider y que reafirmara el Comandante Araya...», both whereof are not the imperfect subjunctive. Edited by 1e4e6 on 11 April 2014 at 12:07am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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