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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5271 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes  Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 65 of 96 19 January 2012 at 9:29am | IP Logged | |||||
It is stronger than English but weaker than Russian, Polish, German, etc. I notice no difference in pronunciation based on the surrounding sounds. The "h" in hrana, uhvatiti, uho, hleba, hiljada, hartija, vazduh, bdah, pleh, etc. is all the same sound. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Delodephius Bilingual Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 5401 days ago 342 posts - 501 votes Speaks: Slovak*, Serbo-Croatian*, EnglishC1, Czech Studies: Russian, Japanese | Message 66 of 96 19 January 2012 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I lived in Serbia my entire life. Technically I was born in Socialist Yugoslavia, but
when I was 4 the country fell apart. Living next to Serbs all my life, but not being a Serb, and not speaking Serbian every day, just with friends, relatives, classmates, co- workers and other acquaintances, I still speak the language almost perfectly, I can express myself better than most natives even and it's hard for most people to tell that I'm not a native. But not being a Serb gave me a unique observational position. I know the language of the Serbs, and the Croats, Bosnians and Montenegrin, but I have no close feelings attached to this language, yet I share the same history, the same experience these people went through with their language in the last 20 years. And being quite an anti- nationalist and against ethnic or in this case linguistic pride, my opinion on the matter may seem very brutal and un-emphatic to most people. From my knowledge and experience I can tell you that the difference between Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and Montenegrin are trivial and largely unimportant. They are just or even less as noticeable as are difference between different varieties of English. The difference is that in their own arrogance, pride and stupidity these countrymen of mine have created an abomination they refer to by different names. IT'S THE SAME LANGUAGE! And after years and years I grew tired of listening to their squabbles and pig-ignorant arguments. So I just refer to the language as New Illyrian, given the fact that it was called Illyrian for thousands of years, stemming from an erroneous belief that it was the descendants of Ancient Illyrian, but if calling it Illyrian is incorrect then we should start calling French as Gallo-Romance, or something like that. The name Illyrian was abandoned in mid-19th century due to poor familiarity amongst the illiterate masses. Well, these illiterate masses have no right of protest. Maybe a bit elitist of me, but who ever asks an ignorant person for any kind of advice on any matter in real life anyway?! They did what they were told back then and now when they are "free" they think it was their opinion all along! 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 67 of 96 19 January 2012 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm afraid this leaves more confused than before -- I can only think of 3 possible sounds: Russian x, English h or German/Scottish ch. I was referring to the type of sound it is, not how strong or weak it is, which is rather meaningless. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5054 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 68 of 96 19 January 2012 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | |||||
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What's the difference between Scottish ch and Russian x?
Anyway, the Russian sound is a good approximation and creates no confusion. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 69 of 96 19 January 2012 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
Russian x is further to the front (as in horosho [forgive the spelling]). Maybe it's palatalized? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5054 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 70 of 96 19 January 2012 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Maybe it's palatalized?
It is palatalized before и and е. Very rarely in foreign words it is palatalized before other vowels, like Хёд (Scandinavian god). Otherwise it is not palatalized. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7154 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 71 of 96 19 January 2012 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
This post reminds me of what this American living in Sarajevo had to deal with when confronted with nationalist prescriptions - a confusing and disjointed politicized mess that makes the process like walking through a set of booby traps rather than something rewarding or meaningful. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5271 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 72 of 96 20 January 2012 at 6:00am | IP Logged | |||||
You're pretty much preaching to the choir here. Most Serbs would be inclined to consider it one language, even to call it Serbo-Croatian. That's what I used to do always and oftentimes still do. And most are perfectly OK with using Latin script just as much as Cyrillic. Perhaps less so in Republika Srpska, but in Serbia itself and particularly the cities you'll see Latin as often as Cyrillic. You sure as hell won't see Cyrillic in Croatia or Croat parts of Bosnia anymore, or even the Muslim parts of Bosnia (despite the fact that Muslims used Cyrillic quite frequently in the past). The language purging has been quite complete. But it takes two to tango. As I have repeatedly had to deal with the nationalistic crap coming from the other side (primarily Croatian, but also Muslim BS), which pretends that these are totally different languages (and of course Serbian variants are worse, ugly, blablabla), I have come to feel that saying "Serbo-Croatian" is perhaps an easy way out, a way to be "inclusive" and not nationalist, a way to deflect the impending judgment I'll face if I confess my ethnicity. Just like saying my parents were from ex-Yugoslavia was a way to evade saying they are Serbian, because saying that in educated circles in the oh-so-tolerant US in the 1990s and even today was pretty much tantamount to confessing membership in a Waffen SS division. So virulent was the propaganda and hostility. So nowadays I say I speak Serbian and that my parents are Serbian (even though my dad is only half). Just as Yehudi Menuhin's mother decided to proudly name her son "Jew" as a way to confront antisemitism. At the end of the day, it was their decision to smash a unified language and country to pieces, so I have no need to weep over the shards. I'll collect what's mine and move on. For me to say "I speak Serbian" today is not a statement that I speak a different language from that spoken by Croats and Muslims and the newly-manufactured Milonegrins. I could care less to distinguish myself from them in that regard. I think the more native speakers there are, the better. But what it's really about, in the end, is that I have no need to prop up a Yugoslav identity in front of myself or even diffuse my own language into a PC "Serbo-Croatian" or the odious acronym BC(M)S. I am Serbian and I'll call my language as such, so that those who would be inclined to hate or despise me can do so right away without harboring any doubts. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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