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6WC - Finnish (MGF)
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MeshGearFox
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Message 17 of 38

21 April 2007 at 1:37am | IP Logged

Day 7
---

I started Finnish last Saturday. Currently, it is Friday. I seem to have miscounted my days somewhere.

In any case, I worked more with Ymmarra today. My pronunciation is still very off. I have some idea as to how possessive pronouns are supposed to work. I'm also, apparently, picking up words. I've noticed, and perhaps I'm wrong about this, but mennä seems to take the accusative, and doesn't require any sort of preposition for "towards/to" or the corresponding cases.

Actually, I was wrong. That was the illative case for the verbs of motion. Not the accusative. Wow. No idea how I missed that.

Edited by MeshGearFox on 21 April 2007 at 2:35am
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Serpent
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Message 18 of 38

21 April 2007 at 5:51am | IP Logged

MeshGearFox wrote:

---

It is February's last day. There's a hurry in the bank, as always in the month's end. Pirkko's cash register has a lot of clients in wait (into a turn?/their turns?). The first in the queue is as a young lady, who wants to pay the rent, the electricity bill, and the phone bill. She leaves her bills to Pirkko, who delivers them into the budget account and gives to the customers the receipts. Simultaneously woman draws 1000 marks in (composed of) cash.

Pirkko's next customer is an old man, who withdraws his pension. Then it's Mirko's turn. Mirko doesn't remember, how much money on his account. Therefore he asks of Pirkko his balance. When Pirkko has him his balance, Mirko wants to send to his family (into?) Croatia 1000 marks. Pirkko gives to Mirko a form (Is this ACC or GEN?), which Mirko fills. Mirko asks of Pirrko, when moneys are at the destination. Pirkko says, that it lasts about a week.

Also in the ATM's front is a queue, because the lady, who is trying to take money out of the ATM, does not remember her PIN number. She goes into the bank, and calms down the situation with the ATM.

---

That's a very good translation.
odottamassa vuoroaan means waiting for their turns, vuoroaan is the partitive of vuoro plus the third person's possessive suffix :)
lomakkeen is the accusative form here, because there's no word it could be the attribute of.
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MeshGearFox
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Message 19 of 38

21 April 2007 at 7:29pm | IP Logged

Translation of the In the Restaurant paragraph that did last night/this morning. I've left some of the translations more literal for my own benefit. Also, I think I did a few sentences out of order for some reason. Moving on to the second section of Ymmarra tonight.

Current goals are to, hopefully, pick up on when and when not to use the partitive. After numbers, at least, is the one I'm the best with. I rather like this. None of that nom. singular/gen. singular/gen. plural stuff like in Russian.

Quote:

Kaisun työvuoro ravintola Makupalassa on juuri alkanut. Hänellä on iltavuoro. Ravintolassa on vain muutama asiakas. Kello on neljä iltapäivällä. Ikkunapöydässä istuu keski-ikäinen pariskunta. Ravintolan keskellä istuu kolme nuorta naista, ja nurkkapöydässä on nuori mies yksin. Kaisu ottaa ruokalistan mukaansa, ja menee ensin pariskunnan pöytään. Hän antaa ruokalistat heille ja kysyy, mitä he haluavat juoda. Pariskunta tilaa pullon punaviiniä. Sitten Kaisu menee nuorten naisten pöytään. Tytöt tilaavat kolme lonkeroa. Lopuksi Kaisu menee nuoren miehen luo. Mies ottaa ison tuopin keskiolutta. Kaisu hakee juotavat, ja vie ne asiakkaille. Samalla hän ottaa ruokatilauksen pariskunnalta. Hän vie tilauksen kokille keittiöön. Ravintolaan tulee perhe, jossa on kaksi lasta. Toisella lapsista on syntymäpäivä. Kaikki haluavat isot jäätelöannokset ja lapset haluavat myös kokikset. Kaisu on hyvällä tuulella. Asiakkaita ei ole liikaa, ja hän ehtii palvelemaan heitä kunnolla.

----

Kaisu's shift at the restaurant in Makapusa has just begun. He has night shift. In the restaurant are only a couple of customers. The clock is four in the afternoon. In the table next to the window sits a middle-aged married couple. In the middle of the restaurant sit three young women, and in the corner table is a young man alone. Kaisu takes the menu with himself, and goes first to the married couples table. He gives the menu to them and asks, what they wants to drink. The married couple orders a bottle of red wine (bottle's red wine). Then Kaisu goes to the young ladies' table. The girls order three gins (long drinks). Finally Kaisu goes to the young man. The man takes a big tankard of medium-strength beer. Kaisu goes to fetch the drinks, and brings them to the customers. At the same time he takes orders for food from the married couple. He brings the orders to the cook into the kitchen. Into the restaurant goes a family, where there are two children. The other child has a birthday. Everybody wants a big portion of icecream and the children want also (cokes?). Kaisu is in a good mood. The customers are not too many, and he has time to serve everyone properly.

Day 8
---

Translated a bit more:

"Ville was in love. He was in love with Laura. Laura had beautiful blue eyes and golden hair. Laura and Ville were at class at the same time. Jonsi took an interest in reading and Laura ??? hobby was riding. She rode that day and worked at the stables that night at brushing her horse. The horse's name was Perho. It was quite fast. Laura also loved Ville. Therefor she wanted it, that Ville came with her to take care of the horse and to ride. But Ville didn't like the horse. He didn't like riding either. Actually Ville was afraid a little of Laura's horse. That time, when Ville came near Perho, he neighed (whinnied? What do horses do?). Laura said (relation to sanosta/sana), that he (Perho) was glad, when he saw Ville. Ville thought he grimaced. Laura wanted to teach Ville how to brush Perho. When Ville began to brush, Perho lifted immediately his other hind leg. Laura said, that Ville should take care to brush the leg. Ville thought, that Perho intended to kick him. "

The ??? refers to some work "rakkain" which I couldn't figure out at all. I'll post more from that section (Tektsi 1) as I do it.

Anyway, I've noticed that there are five infinitive forms, and that some of the verb forms can decline like nouns. This is extremely fascinating to me. This, I think, should be on my short list of things to learn.

Likewise, I've found some interesting stuff about adverb formation which, while non essential, could prove helpful, so I think I'll read through that a little, briefly, just to get a feel for it.

Edited by MeshGearFox on 22 April 2007 at 2:33am
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Aapo
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Message 20 of 38

22 April 2007 at 4:51am | IP Logged

Some notes:

"restaurant in Makapusa" -> "Makupala restaurant" / "Tasty Bit
restaurant"

Kaisu is a woman's name. You can find a rather comprehensive lists of
Finnish feminine and masculine names here:
http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_suomalaisista_naisten_ etunimistä
http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luettelo_suomalaisista_miesten_ etunimistä

Cokes is correct.

"She rode that day and worked at the stables that night at brushing her
horse." -> "every day", "every night"

"That time, when Ville came near Perho, he neighed" -> "every time"

Rakkain means "dearest", "most loved" or "the most loved one" (rakkain
harrastukseni = my dearest hobby, rakkain julkkis = the most loved
celebrity, rakkaimpani = the one I love most). It's a superlative of
"rakas" (dear, loved, loved one).
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Hencke
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Message 21 of 38

22 April 2007 at 9:48am | IP Logged

MeshGearFox wrote:

Day 6
---
She goes into the bank, and calms down the situation with the ATM.

She goes into the bank, and the situation by the ATM calms down.
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MeshGearFox
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Message 22 of 38

22 April 2007 at 11:25pm | IP Logged

Did a few more from Teksti 1. I think I did okay with most of them save for a few trouble-spots that I'll highlight at the end.

Quote:

Ville wanted to walk with Laura in nature and discuss literature. But Laura went only that night to the stable. “You don't care about me,” said Ville. “You like a lot more your horse.” Laura said, that she liked them both.

One day Laura forced Ville to ride. And although Ville also went now quite near to Perho, he didn't grimace (snarl?); he neither bit nor kicked. Ville got up onto (into, lit.?) Perhon's back. Then Perho left immediately to gallop. He galloped along the circuit at a wild speed, then he came back to Laura, got up onto his hindlegs, neight and threw Ville into a mudpuddle. Ville lay wet in the mud puddle, and Laura laughed (instead of making sure he wasn't dead, of course) and the horse neighed. Then Ville understood that laura didn't love him. Ville's heart ached. He went home and locked his door. He didn't open the door, when the doorbell rang, and he didn't (What is the -ka suffix?) into his telephone. He neither ate nor drank (?).

And another paragraph:

Quote:

On a certain night he saw (had) a nightmare. He was alone in a desert. The sun fried hotter. He had hunger and thirst. Then to him came a horse. He got onto his back. Suddenly there was a big herd of wild horses around them. The horse, on whose back Ville sat, get up on his hind legs and threw Ville onto (into) the next horse's back. Then all of the horses went to galloping at a wild speed and threw Ville from back to back. Ville woke up totally wet from sweat. He got up and decided, that the horse wasn't going to ruin his life (Lit. receiving damage into his life?). He took [took place? ate?] in the shower, ate breakfast, and left for class.

A) I don't know what the -ka suffix on eikä is. I'm assuming it's related to kin/kAAn, but I'm not sure.

B) All of: "Hän nousi ylös ja päätti, että hevonen ei saanut pilata hänen elämäänsä. Hän kävi suihkussa, söi aamiaisen ja lähti kurssille." is confusing to me. Is something idiomatic here?

C) The "wild speed" bits were, obviously, another area I was having trouble with. For context:

"Sitten kaikki hevoset lähtivät laukkaamaan hurjaa vauhtia"

"Se laukkasi pitkän kierroksen hurjaa vauhtia..."

"lähtivät laukkaamaan" is also something, in and of itself, I don't understand. It seems like 'left into a run' but the horses don't seem to be leaving anything. Idiomatic?

D) "Yhtäkkiä ympärillä oli iso lauma villihevosia. Hevonen" <- I'm uncertain about the usage of ympärillä. Does this mean something like to be surrounded by? It looks like an adjective, though.

Edited by MeshGearFox on 22 April 2007 at 11:31pm
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Hencke
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Message 23 of 38

23 April 2007 at 10:49am | IP Logged

MeshGearFox wrote:

A) I don't know what the -ka suffix on eikä is. I'm assuming it's related to kin/kAAn, but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure about the relationship to kin/kaan, but it can have the meaning of "nor" or "not either" in English, especially if you add "myöskään". "Ei ole A eikä myöskään B" - "It is not A and not B either". It also emphasises the negation and can be used to insist that it's NOT, contrary to what has just been claimed.

MeshGearFox wrote:

B) All of: "Hän nousi ylös ja päätti, että hevonen ei saanut pilata hänen elämäänsä. Hän kävi suihkussa, söi aamiaisen ja lähti kurssille." is confusing to me. Is something idiomatic here?

Not sure where the confusion is: "He got up and decided that the horse would not be allowed (ie. he would not allow it) to spoil his life. He took a shower, had breakfast and went to the course."

MeshGearFox wrote:

C) The "wild speed" bits were, obviously, another area I was having trouble with. For context:

"Sitten kaikki hevoset lähtivät laukkaamaan hurjaa vauhtia"

"Se laukkasi pitkän kierroksen hurjaa vauhtia..."

"They set off at a wild gallop" or "galloping at a wild/frightful/terrible/awesome/etc. speed.". The "wild speed" is in partitive there. What is the trouble?

MeshGearFox wrote:

"lähtivät laukkaamaan" is also something, in and of itself, I don't understand. It seems like 'left into a run' but the horses don't seem to be leaving anything. Idiomatic?

Yes, "lähteä" means "leave", but the way it is used here "lähteä laukkaamaan" (or juoksemaan or other movement verbs) the meaning is more like "they up and started galloping". With other than movement verbs this same construction has the meaning "go off (somewhere) to ...": "hän lähti opiskelemaan yliopistoon" - "He went off to study at the university".

MeshGearFox wrote:

D) "Yhtäkkiä ympärillä oli iso lauma villihevosia. Hevonen" <- I'm uncertain about the usage of ympärillä. Does this mean something like to be surrounded by? It looks like an adjective, though.

Not an adjective, an adverb I think. "ympärillä" = "around (them/us/or whatever applies)". But you might often want to translate it as "be surrounded by". The literal translation of the above is "Suddenly there was a big flock of wild horses around them.", but it sounds more natural in English if you use "they were surrounded by". However, for understanding how the Finnish sentence is built up, the literal translation is more helpful to the learner.
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MeshGearFox
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Message 24 of 38

23 April 2007 at 5:23pm | IP Logged

For B, no clue why I had the second sentence in there. I understood that. For the first part, I keep getting that saada means to get. Is this literally the same construction as in English and Swedish where 'get' can mean to be allowed to? Like, I got to see the car today? I'm assuming that's the case -- I just wasn't expecting that at all.

For C, actually, looking back, I think I was just wondering why vauhti needed to be in partitive.

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