Our own Assimil - work here! (Language Programs, Books & Tapes) Language Learning Forum

Our own Assimil - work here!
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Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes

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yiyi
Newbie
ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 6297 days ago
10 posts - 12 votes
Speaks: Mandarin*

Message 25 of 162

07 November 2008 at 9:04pm | IP Logged

Lesson 1 - Simplified Chinese(madarin)

Anna: 你好 Tom!
Tom: 你好 Anna! 怎么样？
Anna: 不错，你呢?
Tom: 还行。(1)我得走了。再见
Anna: 再见!
(1)In China we usually don't say thank you after others ask how are you.

Edited by yiyi on 07 November 2008 at 9:10pm
2 persons have voted this message useful

farrioth
Senior Member
New Zealand
Joined 6088 days ago
171 posts - 173 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Russian, Esperanto, Sanskrit, Japanese

Message 26 of 162

07 November 2008 at 10:41pm | IP Logged

BGreco wrote:

Another input from a native English speaker: Nobody knows what the word "copula" means.

Yes we do.

Russian:

dragonfly wrote:

Мне нужно идти.

You might want to explain мне нужно. I've seen this confuse a few people, as they expect a more literal translation (я + verb).

dragonfly wrote:

2. We tend to omit possessive pronouns when it is clear from the context who the possesser is. E.g.: Как (твои) дела?
3. There are two words meaning “you” in Russian: ты and Вы. The latter is used when you address a person you don’t know, who is older than you (except for close relatives). It’s polite and is usually written with the capital letter.

These points can probably both wait until later lessons. I think it's easier just to learn "как дела" as a phrase. Вы and ты can wait until ты is actually used in a dialogue. (I don't think there's any harm in learners calling everyone Вы until then.)

Esperanto:

Volte wrote:

My Esperanto is not good; I wouldn't dare propose the following translations if I didn't know that Sprachprofi is fluent. Hopefully any necessary revisions will be less work than rewriting the translations from scratch, and hopefully the notes can be of some help.

Thanks for translating these. My Esperanto isn't great either, so I'll leave checking the dialogues to someone more fluent, but I've got a couple of points to make on your notes.

Volte wrote:

Ĝis is approximately pronounced 'Jiss', rhyming with 'hiss'.

<ĝis> is [d͡ʒis]. I've never heard [d͡ʒɪs]. Unless you say [hiːs], which I doubt. Most people don't, anyway.

Volte wrote:

(1) English changes statements to questions without using "question words" (who, where, what, why, when, how) by inverting words: "You are Alex. Are you Alex?". Esperanto is easier: you simply start the question with 'ĉu', and everything else stays the same.

You might want to note that when you use a question word in Esperanto (kio, kie etc.), you don't use ĉu; ĉu is only for yes/no questions.

Volte wrote:

"Ĉu" is pronounced approximately like "chew" in English, or like the sound of a train - "tchoo tchoo" - but without the t.

"Without the T" is misleading, I think, as <ĉu> is [t͡ʃu].

Volte wrote:

(2) The Esperanto copula is almost identical to the English one, but easier: it's the same no matter who it refers to. The verb in "I am, you are, he/she is" is always "estas" in Esperanto, and it's used to link things in the same way.
3) Similarly, the negation of the copula is very simple: just put 'ne' before it, which makes 'ne estas' - it's like putting not after it in English.

It's worth mentioning that all verbs work like this.

Edited by farrioth on 07 November 2008 at 10:46pm
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BGreco
Senior Member
Joined 6391 days ago
211 posts - 222 votes

3 sounds
Speaks: English*
Studies: French, Spanish

Message 27 of 162

07 November 2008 at 10:46pm | IP Logged

In America, we call them "linking verbs."
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Leopejo
Bilingual Triglot
Senior Member
Italy
Joined 6107 days ago
675 posts - 724 votes

Speaks: Italian*, Finnish*, English
Studies: French, Russian

Message 28 of 162

08 November 2008 at 2:56am | IP Logged

farrioth wrote:

dragonfly wrote:

Well, the original dialogs differed (on purpose, I suppose): the first between friends, the second more formal. As you see, the first dialog is informal in Russian (привет) and uses тебя.

The distinction between formal and informal comes very early in many language courses.
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Sprachprofi
Nonaglot
Senior Member
Germany
learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 6468 days ago
2608 posts - 4866 votes

Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian
Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese

Message 29 of 162

08 November 2008 at 3:07am | IP Logged

Thank you very much! It's great to see what we're getting a lot of languages right from the start!

Please don't worry too much about translating freely. I do not mean to teach "It is no problem" in particular but rather any usual reply to "I'm sorry" - still going with the "common phrases" part of the topic list. Also, I'm well aware that some languages will have no copula, some will, some will use an adjective, some will use verbs, some will change for genders and the like - just translate things as they should be said, and explain any differences in the notes. I don't want people to talk stiffly. I also did not intend for the introduction (Tom traveling to another city...) to be translated, this is just to get people situated and make this dialog more logical.

I am adding an explanation about the copula and a note on the usage of "I'm good".

Edited by Sprachprofi on 08 November 2008 at 3:16am
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farrioth
Senior Member
New Zealand
Joined 6088 days ago
171 posts - 173 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Russian, Esperanto, Sanskrit, Japanese

Message 30 of 162

08 November 2008 at 3:07am | IP Logged

Leopejo wrote:

Ah yes, good point, thank you.
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Leopejo
Bilingual Triglot
Senior Member
Italy
Joined 6107 days ago
675 posts - 724 votes

Speaks: Italian*, Finnish*, English
Studies: French, Russian

Message 31 of 162

08 November 2008 at 3:08am | IP Logged

peppelanguage wrote:

Lesson 1 - Italian

Anna: Ciao Tom!
Tom: Ciao Anna! Come stai*?
Anna: Io** sto bene, e tu?
Tom: Io** sto molto bene, grazie. Devo andare. A presto***!
Anna: Ciao!

Extra: Buongiorno! Buona sera! Buona notte! (In Italian we don't have "good morning", we are not used to say "Buona mattina")

*"How are you?" can be translated like "Come stai?" or "Come va?"...Come va is more used, but I think most of the books for Italian courses will put "Come stai", it's more "literal"
**In Italian is not necessary to put always the subject,when is clear from the context (- Come stai? - Bene, grazie)
***"See you later" literally means "Ci vediamo più tardi", but in Italian this would mean "We meet later (TODAY)" while in English is just a way to say goodbye...

Lesson 2 - Italian

Tom arriva alla stazione di un'altra città*, dove dovrebbe incontrarsi con Alex. Si sono conosciuti su un forum ed è la prima volta che si incontrano di persona.

Tom: Scusa, sei tu Alex?
Man 1: No, non sono io.
Tom: Oh, mi scusi**.
Man 1: Nessun problema.
...
Man 2 (si avvicina a Tom): Ciao!
Tom: Ciao Alex! Sono Tom, dal Canada.
Man 2: Mi dispiace, ma non sono Alex. Lei è laggiù.
Tom: Lei??? Alex è una donna?

*of ANOTHER city? we didn't mention no cities in lesson one...anyway...this is the exact translation :)
** "Mi scusi" means "I'm sorry" but it's more formal...the colloquial way to say it is "Scusa/Scusami" (using the 2nd person)

the same of dragonfly applies to me too...if something misses, just tell me :)

A few notes:
1. I'd put "come va?". I wouldn't go for literal translations for these so used, idiomatic, expressions. On the other hand, "come stai?" is not so bad and used too.

2. Buongiorno, buonasera, buonanotte - usually written together, right? (I always write them separately though :-D ). An explaining note, as it differs from most other languages: buongiorno, lit. "good day" is used only in the morning, until 12 - 1 pm; after that buonasera, lit. "good evening".

3. Lesson 2: I'd say as Peppe wrote, but I'd teach instead: "Scusi, è Lei Alex?".
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Feculent
Senior Member
Switzerland
Joined 6159 days ago
136 posts - 144 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: French, German

Message 32 of 162

08 November 2008 at 4:39am | IP Logged

A site that could be useful for desgining future dialogs is http://wortschatz.uni-leipzig.de/html/wliste.html. It has a really plain word frequency list in English, French, German and Dutch just listing plainly the most common 10,000 words in each language! It's not so useful for a learner as it doesn't give translations, or genders, but it could be very useful for you guys in designing the course but I don't know how good it is ( for example it could be generated from a large source of scientific pdf files in which case the results would be slightly skewed).
This project seems like it could be awesome!!! Wouldn't it be amazing if one day this project had a larger range of languages than Assimil, or complete courses in English that you can't get in Assimil from an English base?!!

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