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jeff_lindqvist
Diglot
Moderator
SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 6907 days ago

4250 posts - 5711 votes 
Speaks: Swedish*, English
Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French
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 Message 41 of 162
08 November 2008 at 12:23pm | IP Logged 
Just a few questions before I start with the Swedish dialogues:

Is it preferable to use common expressions instead of more one closer to the English one? I can give valid translations (almost word-for-word), but feel that it would make the dialogues sound less spontaneous. Of course I can add notes.

Is it recommended to add literal translations (such as in the Esperanto version)?

How about optional greetings (in the notes, if nothing less)? I discussed this topic with a friend yesterday, and we found that there are quite many Swedish possibilities for the simple "How are you" (and I believe it has come up in one the threads about Swedish language).
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Emerald
Triglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
languagedabbler.blog
Joined 6243 days ago

316 posts - 340 votes 
Speaks: Hindi, Gujarati*, English
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 42 of 162
08 November 2008 at 12:51pm | IP Logged 
લેસન ૧ - ગુજરાતી [Lesson 1 - Gujarati]

આના: નમસ્તે ટોમ!
ટોમ: નમસ્તે આના! તુ કેમ છે?
આના: હું મજામા છુ, અને તુ?
ટોમ: હું બહુ મજામા છુ, ઘન્ય્વાદ. મારે જ્વુ પડશે હવે. પછી મળીશુ.
આના: આવજે.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

લેસન ૨ - ગુજરાતી [Lesson 2 - Gujarati]

ટોમ: નમસ્તે, શુ તમે એલેક્સ છો?
પહેલો માણસ: ના, હું એલેક્સ નથી.
ટોમ: ઓહ, માફ કરજો.
પહેલો માણસ: કઇ વાંધો નઇ.
....

બીજો માણસ (ટોમ પાસે જઇને): નમસ્તે!
ટોમ: નમસ્તે એલેક્સ! હું ટોમ છુ, કેનેડાથી.
બીજો માણસ: માફ કરજો, હું એલેક્સ નથી. એ ત્યા ઊભી છે.
ટોમ: એલેક્સ સ્ત્રી છે?

Notes:
In Gujarati - like in German - there is a formal (respectful) way to address people, and a friendly way.
In Lesson 1, I have used friendly form તુ (Tu). Depending on which form you use, it also changes certain other words in respectful/friendly form. In Lesson 1, the word for bye, આવજે is also a friendly form. A formal form would be આવજો.

In Lesson 2, because these are strangers meeting, I have used the formal form તમે (Tame).

In the third sentence of Lesson 2, instead of literally translating "she is there", I have said "she is standing there." The reason for that is because in Gujarati, when talking about a third person, you would use એ which could apply to any sex. It is the context which would tell you what is the sex of the person. By adding "standing" - ઉભી - I am clarifying that it is a woman. If it was a man, it would be ઉભો.


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tricoteuse
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Norway
littlang.blogspot.co
Joined 6676 days ago

745 posts - 845 votes 
Speaks: Swedish*, Norwegian, EnglishC1, Russian, French
Studies: Ukrainian, Bulgarian

 
 Message 43 of 162
08 November 2008 at 2:08pm | IP Logged 
Since jeff_lindqvist is handling the Swedish part now, I made use of my boyfriend to translate it to Norwegian. We did, however, argue some about the word "kvinne", since I have practically never heard it since coming here. In my opinion, everyone uses "dame", but "kvinne" may be more correct in the situation.

Lesson 1 - Norwegian (Norsk)

Anna: Hei Tom!
Tom: Hei Anna! Hvordan har du det?
Anna: Jeg har det bra, og du?
Tom: Veldig bra, takk [som spør](1). Jeg må gå. Snakkes!(2)
Anna: Ha det!

Ekstra: God morgen! God ettermiddag! God kveld! God natt!

NOTATER
(1) "Takk som spør" is not really grammatically correct but sometimes used in these kinds of situations.
(2) Directly translated as "(we) will speak to eachother". This is a very common thing to say when parting.


Lesson 2 - Norwegian (Norsk)

Tom is arriving at a train station in another city, where he's supposed to meet with Alex. They know each other from a forum and they're meeting offline for the first time.

Tom: Unnskyld (meg), er du Alex?
Man 1: Nei, det er jeg ikke.
Tom: (Jeg) beklager.
Man 1: Ikke noe problem.
...
Man 2 (går bort til Tom): Hallo!
Tom: Hallo Alex! Jeg er (3) Tom, fra Canada.
Man 2: Beklager, jeg er ikke Alex. Hun er der borte.
Tom: Hun??? Alex er en kvinne?

NOTATER
(3) The verb "to be" is very easy to conjugate in Norwegian, just use "er" for all persons in the present tense.


Edited by tricoteuse on 08 November 2008 at 2:10pm

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Cainntear
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Scotland
linguafrankly.blogsp
Joined 6009 days ago

4399 posts - 7687 votes 
Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic
Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh

 
 Message 44 of 162
08 November 2008 at 2:36pm | IP Logged 
Sprachprofi wrote:
I am adding an explanation about the copula and a note on the usage of "I'm good".
...
(1) Note that a lot of people will say "I'm good" instead of "I'm well", even though it's not correct.


I disagree strongly with this. "I'm good" is no less correct than "I'm well".

Consider alternative answers to the question:
"Not bad.", "I'm tired.", "I'm doing well."
Adjective. Past participle as adjective. Adjective construction using verbal noun.

It's an adjective, and as other posters have already said, "well" as an adjective means "not ill".

No-one says "I'm well", and I've lost count of the number of students I've had to correct on this.

The neutral response is "I'm fine" and I'd recommend using this here.

One other thing:
dialogue wrote:

Man 2 (walks up to Tom): Hello!
Tom: Hello Alex! I'm Tom, from Canada.
Man 2: Sorry, I am not Alex. She is over there.
Tom: She??? Alex is a woman?

I'd caution against using this dialogue. The word "she" hear is being used non-grammatically. While this is fine (meaning "why did you say 'she'") but to the student it will look like a demonstrative, particularly in languages which use the nominative for the non-clausal demonstrative. You could drop it and make the line simply "Alex is a woman?"

Edited by Cainntear on 08 November 2008 at 2:43pm

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farrioth
Senior Member
New Zealand
Joined 6088 days ago

171 posts - 173 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Russian, Esperanto, Sanskrit, Japanese

 
 Message 45 of 162
08 November 2008 at 3:04pm | IP Logged 
jeff_lindqvist wrote:

Is it preferable to use common expressions instead of more one closer to the English one? I can give valid translations (almost word-for-word), but feel that it would make the dialogues sound less spontaneous. Of course I can add notes.


I'd go for natural translations.

jeff_lindqvist wrote:

Is it recommended to add literal translations (such as in the Esperanto version)?


Both literal English for the target language and vice versa would be helpful, but I don't think they're absolutely necessary.

Volte wrote:

I'd say the transliterations should be faithful to pronunciation, not spelling, and perhaps use IPA. I'd also say that, while important, it's extremely secondary to getting a good translation to begin with; there's no point saddling the project down with so many niceties from the beginning that it dies again.


I'd say that we ideally want a standard romanisation for languages that have them (Eg. Pinyin for Mandarin), as well as either an explanation of the romanisation in IPA (where this is easy), or IPA given for each new word (a word list would be more concise that transcribing the entire dialogues) where necessary.

Of course, I'd agree that it is still secondary to the translations themselves.
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josht
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6444 days ago

635 posts - 857 votes 
Speaks: English*, German
Studies: French, Spanish, Russian, Dutch

 
 Message 46 of 162
08 November 2008 at 3:09pm | IP Logged 
I'd also go with "I'm fine" as the first response to "How are you?" It's what I hear most often, I'd say, with "I'm good" coming in at a close second. I very rarely hear "I'm well."
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Cainntear
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Scotland
linguafrankly.blogsp
Joined 6009 days ago

4399 posts - 7687 votes 
Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic
Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh

 
 Message 47 of 162
08 November 2008 at 5:03pm | IP Logged 
One more observation on the dialogues:

Surely it's better to use native names? But if we do, the "Alex" thing won't translate (unless Alex is a foreign tourist)...
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peppelanguage
Triglot
Groupie
ItalyRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5862 days ago

90 posts - 94 votes 
Speaks: Italian*, Spanish, English
Studies: French, Swedish

 
 Message 48 of 162
08 November 2008 at 5:13pm | IP Logged 
Sorry for answering late....had problems... :)

Leopejo wrote:
peppelanguage wrote:
Lesson 1 - Italian

Anna: Ciao Tom!
Tom: Ciao Anna! Come stai*?
Anna: Io** sto bene, e tu?
Tom: Io** sto molto bene, grazie. Devo andare. A presto***!
Anna: Ciao!

Extra: Buongiorno! Buona sera! Buona notte! (In Italian we don't have "good morning", we are not used to say "Buona mattina")

*"How are you?" can be translated like "Come stai?" or "Come va?"...Come va is more used, but I think most of the books for Italian courses will put "Come stai", it's more "literal"
**In Italian is not necessary to put always the subject,when is clear from the context (- Come stai? - Bene, grazie)
***"See you later" literally means "Ci vediamo più tardi", but in Italian this would mean "We meet later (TODAY)" while in English is just a way to say goodbye...


Lesson 2 - Italian

Tom arriva alla stazione di un'altra città*, dove dovrebbe incontrarsi con Alex. Si sono conosciuti su un forum ed è la prima volta che si incontrano di persona.

Tom: Scusa, sei tu Alex?
Man 1: No, non sono io.
Tom: Oh, mi scusi**.
Man 1: Nessun problema.
...
Man 2 (si avvicina a Tom): Ciao!
Tom: Ciao Alex! Sono Tom, dal Canada.
Man 2: Mi dispiace, ma non sono Alex. Lei è laggiù.
Tom: Lei??? Alex è una donna?

*of ANOTHER city? we didn't mention no cities in lesson one...anyway...this is the exact translation :)
** "Mi scusi" means "I'm sorry" but it's more formal...the colloquial way to say it is "Scusa/Scusami" (using the 2nd person)

the same of dragonfly applies to me too...if something misses, just tell me :)

A few notes:
1. I'd put "come va?". I wouldn't go for literal translations for these so used, idiomatic, expressions. On the other hand, "come stai?" is not so bad and used too.

2. Buongiorno, buonasera, buonanotte - usually written together, right? (I always write them separately though :-D ). An explaining note, as it differs from most other languages: buongiorno, lit. "good day" is used only in the morning, until 12 - 1 pm; after that buonasera, lit. "good evening".

3. Lesson 2: I'd say as Peppe wrote, but I'd teach instead: "Scusi, è Lei Alex?".


Answering to the notes....
1)I prefer "Come va?" too...but I tried to stick more to the original version, maybe we could put a note to explain it..but I think this is a problem in all the versions...any language has more than 2 or 3 ways (AT LEAST) to say "How are you?"...the same English...has "How are you?", "How's it going?", "How do you do?" and probably more...I can't remember more at the moment :)

2) Buongiorno is used from the wake up till 12/1pm/2pm/3pm/4pm....depending on the zones...Buona sera usually from 6pm going on...and Buona notte going back home, used as the last greeting...like the English "good night"....
They're usually explained together in the grammar books... :)

3)I put "Scusa, sei tu Alex?" because they already know each other...and he thinks that one is Alex...when he understands he is not Alex passes to "Scusi..."using the lei


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