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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5375 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 105 of 154 13 December 2013 at 7:25pm | IP Logged |
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I used to close the door to my office when I had to speak Spanish on the phone... partly because I needed to concentrate very hard and partly because I did not want my co-workers to hear me. Now I don't mind having the door open. Some of my co-workers think it is pretty cool.
Your story about your friend having the heart attack at 39 is sobering... and makes me glad I started exercising again. Did you ever find a Spanish speaking roommate? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| HermonMunster Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4633 days ago 119 posts - 211 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 106 of 154 16 December 2013 at 2:50pm | IP Logged |
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Hey James,
Knowing another language is awesome and really rare for a regular ole American. I think it really says something about you for even putting in the effort to learn. I've been very surprised at all the people who have heard me speak or read my emails and said, "I want to learn." However, when I explain how much time/effort I have but in just to get to my current level, their eyes kind of glaze over and they change the subject. :-) I wasn't able to find a Spanish Speaking roommate. I renegotiated my deal with our current housemate and she accepted most of my terms. I'm reading a good book on negotiation, " The Negotiation Game" by Chester L. Karrass. He has a systematic method for approaching negotiations and I have already used some of his methods in my personal life. It's amazing how much we underestimate our power in negotiations. For instance with our current land lady she was getting: 1. Stable income (my checks are always good and on time) 2. Safe, trustworthy people to live with. 3. A man with skills around the house (heavy lifting, computer troubleshooting, handyman) 4. A live-in friend through my wife. That's a pretty good deal for her and I felt like it was a little too one-sided. Through the techniques in the book I was able to organize my thoughts, understand what I was bringing to the table and make a reasonable list of demands. I had 4 requests and "won" on 3 of them. Most of my power came from the fact that I had done my research and was ready to walk (even though I hate moving). One of the best quotes from the book is, "You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate." I'm looking forward to continuing to hone my skills and get more out of work and life. Also I'm ready for negotiating the price of gifts the next time I'm in Mexico. I think it will be a fun experience. Who knows, I may just pay the full price they were asking as payment for talking with me. A few days ago I had a funny interaction. I was in a cafeteria for dinner (they are really popular in the south). Most of the servers are Hispanic so I try to speak to a few of them in Spanish. One lady didn't know I spoke Spanish until I asked for a sweet tea in Spanish. Then she asked me if I was with the lady and her kids who were behind me in line. My reply was pretty rude, now that I think about it, but it was kinda cool how it just popped out of my mouth. "My wife is much more beautiful than her." The cashier said, "Ayeeee!” and started laughing. I continue to be amazed at the success of Rosetta Stone's marketing group. So many people think that they can't start learning a language unless they have that program. I know if works for some people, but I think that platiquemos blows it out of the water. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5262 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 107 of 154 16 December 2013 at 3:21pm | IP Logged |
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Marketing budget for Rosetta Stone = $$$$$$. Marketing budget for what works- $0. I can't tell you how many people ask me the same thing, or tell me- "I'm going to learn Spanish and I'm going to get RS because it works!".
Most Americans only ever see language learning in the context of the Rosetta Stone commercials. They prey on people's desire to learn a language, provide a technological "solution" and the hefty price tag implies gravitas. The ads make it seem like it's so easy! Since no course is a one stop solution to learn a language, people quit. You've got to really want to learn a language to make it happen. That's what you did, HermonMunster and now, you're a Spanish-speaker! You put in the time, the sweat, the effort and you made it happen. People think it's a good idea in theory to learn a language but when they see what's really involved they're not willing to do what we have done. Sadly, RS is now ready to tap the US Hispanic market with their flimflam for Spanish-speakers who want to learn English with Rosetta Stone commercials on Telemundo and Univisión. ¡Ay bendito! RS: Antes y Ahora vote Boo! Edited by iguanamon on 16 December 2013 at 3:33pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| HermonMunster Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4633 days ago 119 posts - 211 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 108 of 154 17 December 2013 at 5:32am | IP Logged |
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Hey Iguanamon,
I totally agree with you. In my opinion RS is snake oil. True, it can be a compliment to a well rounded language learning regimen, but they are selling an impossible dream. Them moving into the US Hispanic market really hurts my soul. Learning good English is a key to a better life and the folks at RS know that parents will spend their last dime to help their children succeed. I'm sure there will be more than a few angry parents who say something along these lines to their kids. " Why isn't your English better?!?! I paid $300 for the RS. It's guaranteed!" Here's part of the script from a RS commercial. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMAOSZWnLQs "So you've always wanted to learn a new language but something keeps getting in the way." (words display on the screen: It's boring. It's too hard. I'm too busy. It never works.) [sounds to me like this person is lazy and doesn't want to put forth the effort to accomplish a task. Not a good recipe for success in any endeavor. ] "It's the easiest and most enjoyable way to learn a language, guaranteed." [ How the F$%^ can you guarantee how much fun I'm having?!?!?] Later in the ad they mention there is a money back guarantee but that's well after they implied, "You'll have more fun than anything else in the universe." I'm sure that some people will reach fluency by starting with RS and moving on to other material, but just because some can do it doesn't mean it's a good product. 0.02% of germs don't die when they get sprayed with Lysol... Someone/thing will always make it. To all the RS lovers out here, I'm not bashing the product, just the way the company sells it. I wish they would just be straight with their potential customers. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5375 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 109 of 154 17 December 2013 at 1:38pm | IP Logged |
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I have never even seen how RS works. I had a co-worker who bought it just about exactly when I started studying Spanish. He quit very quickly after plunking down a ton of money. So much of it is just in the motivation factor. On the other hand, I never really knock the program (because I don't even know how it really works and also) because there is a guy in my meetup who has only been studying for two years and he speaks extremely well. I'd say he is a solid B2. All he has ever done is use RS and talk to his fiance who speaks no English. Certainly having a fiance to talk with is very helpful, but this guy definitely "learned" Spanish with RS.
As for the marketing, it works and as long as that is what people want to buy (the "dream" of knowing another language... not the learning process) they will continue to sell. The one that really rips me is the claim I see by the Pimsleur Approach that says scientists have discovered a way to "speak a language in 10 days." Pimsleur is a good program (that is what I started with"), but I think that is borderline fraud. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| HermonMunster Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4633 days ago 119 posts - 211 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 110 of 154 30 December 2013 at 6:45am | IP Logged |
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Hello Everyone,
Operation: Live Your Dreams will commence in about 6 hours.... This post isn't so much about language as it is about life. Seeing how there is no language without life, I'm on topic. In 6 hours my wife and I will be driving up to Manhattan to move her there. We have had to move many times for my career and it's her time to shine. She is intelligent, funny, fun, compassionate, a great friend, beautiful, sexy, a lover, a very talented writer, and a great life partner. I love her with all my heart so I'm happy to "let her go." We will be living apart for about a year while we work on our respective dreams and set up a fantastic future. I'm going to miss her to death, but our relationship is strong and we both think that the distance will make us even stronger. (I'm actually looking forward to writing love letters like we used to do in the beginning)Fortunately we will be only about a 9hr drive away so we will be getting together monthly, but it will still be a major adjustment. In general, I try to stay on topic and not say too many things about my personal life, especially since we lost the baby. However, I think, to a certain extent, that this frame of mind cheapens the whole experience of the site. No one learns a language in a vacuum. Everyone is trying to do it while they figure out this thing called life. If you have lover in your life, give thanks, and kiss her/him like you mean it. If not, prepare yourself for when they arrive. I'm going to miss my baby, but I'm happy that she is getting the opportunity to live her dreams. Life is too short not to try. I do not want to be an old man talking about, "If I would have just..." I have an old fraternity brother that I visit weekly who has many stories that begin and end that way.... Not the life for the Herminator ( lol at me making up a name for myself). Carpe diem and caveat emptor at the same time... Nothing ventured, nothing gained; in life, and in language learning. Be adventurous! peace and love in 2014, -herm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| HermonMunster Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4633 days ago 119 posts - 211 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 111 of 154 20 January 2014 at 7:06am | IP Logged |
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Hey Everybody,
Happy New Year. Hope you all had a good holiday season. Mine was pretty awesome. I didn't do much, if any, Spanish studying, but I did have to use it a lot while I was in New York. I was getting ready to drive home on New Year's Day and I heard a guy yelling. Primo! Primo! (cousin, cousin). It took me a while to realize he was talking to me. He proceeded to ask me if I was leaving soon and if he could have my parking space. All of the conversation was in Spanish and I could understand everything he was saying. I guess I sounded so good that he asked me where I was from ( I think trying to place my accent). I told him, Michigan, and he looked surprised. I'm pretty sure he was thinking Dominican Republic (from my looks) or maybe Mexico, from my accent. Also while I was helping my wife move into her apartment there were some contractors working on the bathroom. Both guys were native Spanish speakers and one barely knew any English. It was very cool to be able to eavesdrop on their conversation. I could understand just about everything. There was some slang that escaped me. Across the street from the apartment there is a big Church and I guess they do a pig roast for the holiday. My wife was so fascinated because the whole pig was laying there with his head and everything. She told me to ask if it was only to take a picture. I loved the energy of the city. it's awesome how there's something going on all the time. Now's the time for resolutions but this year I think I'm going to kind of wing it. I'm already doing what I'm supposed to be doing, so I just need to keep the party going. Not that I don't have concrete goals, but to me, it seems like a resolution carries more weight than a regular ole goal. I started a business late last year (computer repair and home maintenance). It has been an eye opening experience. Getting something new off the ground is difficult. I'm struggling to make a name for myself and get the ball rolling with limited start up capital. I've made a few 100 bucks so far, but I've spent well over $500. I do great work and every client has been satisfied but it just seems like people are so wishy washy when it comes to getting their computer repaired. In lieu of spending a ton on advertising, I've been doing a few pro bono jobs in exchange for people telling all their family and friends about me. However, it still seems that I have to chase people down to do the free work for them. I didn't expect that going in. I charge very reasonable fees and I do so for 2 reasons. 1. I plan to make my $$ in volume 2. I don't tithe but this is my way of giving back to the community and people who may need a little financial assistance. Computer repair is normally very expensive, with a repair costing well over half of the price of a brand new computer. By charging such low fees, I'm able to help people out whose choice is to either have someone like me come around or just let the computer collect dust. One lady's computer that I fixed had been sitting around for 9months b/c she couldn't come up with more $$ to fix it. At my meet up next week I plan on passing out business cards to all the native speakers. I would love to get some Spanish speaking customers. I know some of the migrant population could use my help and I'd be willing to negotiate. Maybe fix a computer in exchange for 2 dinners at their house where we all just speak Spanish. Even though I didn't really practice Spanish for over 20 days, I returned to work with more fluency. It took a day or two for the Spanish part of my brain to turn back on, but it's better than ever. I'm much faster at thinking up sentences and funny replies to instant messages. I've mentioned this before, but I'm getting to better at just being me, in Spanish. My writing is very good, I always use all the accent marks and everything. I still have some phrasing issues, but I'm sure they will go away as time goes on. I was finally able to have a Skype chat with the lady in Mexico who is really shy and needs to improve her Spanish. She did pretty good but her speech is very halted. I've found that Skype without video works much better when you are focusing on improving speed and accuracy. The video is just a too much of a distraction right now. Also there is the burden of what's behind you or what you are wearing/how do you look when the video is on. (my desk is in the bedroom and I found myself making the bed and straightening up before the call. I can imagine it would be worse for a computer in a shared living space... Don't want to be chatting with someone and their wife walks by in her underwear or something) I'm speaking more Spanish on the phone, but I still get hopelessly lost on conference calls. I think it's because of a mix between the speed of the speaking, poor audio, and a plain lack of skills on my part. Still haven't received my results from the DELE B1 exam. All my buddies ask me if I passed. I'm pretty sure I did but who knows. Either way, I've already won because prepping for the exam forced me to study much harder than I would have otherwise. I think that I want to eventually get to the C1 level and then call it quits on formal study. I don't think that C2 would ever be worth the effort. It's basically native speaker, professor level. There's just no need for me to get that good. I'm just imagining the difficulty of ascending to that level and then being good enough in the language to, for lack of a better term, dumb it down when I'm talking to a person in Mexico or South America whose first language isn't even Spanish. I will probably stick to my current plan of studying Spanish really hard for 4 years ( I'm just about to year 2 now) and then moving on to French for 4 years and being tri-lingual by 40. I think that's a pretty cool goal to have. I may get to go back to Mexico at the end of February but I'm not sure if they will approve it. My presence at some meetings isn't 100% necessary but it would be helpful and I can sell it from an employee training angle as I would be getting another immersion experience. I will be traveling to Europe for 3 weeks this year for training and visiting the R&D facility. Those trips should be awesome and I'm hoping to have an opportunity to use my Spanish while I'm there even though I won't be in Spain. Recently I went to a Salsa boot camp to get back into the swing of things and I'm practicing every other day in the garage. 2014 is the year of the dance for me. I have a lot of fun doing it (even though I'm terrible) and I'm meeting some very interesting people. Also it's a good way to practice my Spanish. One of my co-workers said something that almost had me crying from laughing so hard. I asked what the word for donut was (because google translate failed me once again). He told me the word and then he tried to describe a donut in English. He called a donut, "the sweet, circle bread." hahahha! It actually is a really good description but it was sooooo funny to me. I'm really thankful for a work experience I had almost 7 years ago. I was in my 2nd job out of school and I was tasked with modifying electrical components, by hand, for several months. I would just go to the workshop and work alone all day. I hated it and complained to my wife almost every day. Now that I'm repairing motherboards as a part of my business I'm very happy that I had that experience. I guess the moral of the story is that you're always learning, even if you think you're not. I picked up the local Spanish newspaper and cruised right through it. I was amazed myself with how effortless it was. There were a few words here and there that I didn't know, but I always knew the connotation. That really made me feel good. It's nice to know the hard work is paying off. Sometimes I do get frustrated with my current language limitations and I have to remember what I tell my Mexican buddies, " The goal is to communicate." Language is like playing with magnets;. all you have to do is get close and the other person can pull you the rest of the way. Ohh yea, I guess I do have a resolution, to go hang gliding. It's always been my dream since I was a little boy and this seems like a good year to try. Cya 5 persons have voted this message useful | |
| HermonMunster Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4633 days ago 119 posts - 211 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 112 of 154 14 February 2014 at 4:08am | IP Logged |
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Hello everyone,
I hope you are all well. I’m doing great. I don’t know exactly when it is, but I’m celebrating 2 years of studying Spanish. It’s hard to believe that I’ve been at it this long. It seems like yesterday I had a bloody nose and couldn’t say what type of medicine I needed in the nose isle of the Durango, MX Walmart. I guess now would be a good time to say what I can do with 2 years under my belt. It’s difficult to give specific examples but I can, more or less, say whatever I want. I guess the biggest measure of my skills is that I feel that I can really just be me in Spanish. I’m able to be the quick witted, funny guy that I am in English. I’m still learning new words every day and I pretty much start the day by asking a few of my buddies how to say a phrase in Spanish. For example, yesterday I was chatting with a lady from Hermosillo about her niece. She’s about 2 months old and my buddy is crazy about her. We were talking about which age of kid we like most and I said that they are more fun when they do something other than eat, sleep, cry, and poop. She said that she doesn’t like toddlers because they are naughty. I had to add that word to my study list and then asked another buddy if I could use it to describe a Halloween costume, naughty nurse. They cracked up and said no, it doesn’t work like that. I’m really getting into the guts of the language and learning the nuances. My phrasing, listening, and speaking could all stand to improve, but overall I’m very pleased with my progress and my overall effort thus far. My writing is pretty good. The other day I wrote in English to a buddy and they said, “I didn’t know you could still speak English.” I really try to only communicate in Spanish when I can. If I have time and there’s a mix between Americans and Mexicans on the distribution, I will write in both languages. It’s good practice for me and I want some of my colleagues/superiors to know how good I’m getting. I still get smoked when there’s a conference call and multiple people speaking Spanish at once, but many of my Mexican buddies ask me how to say something in English by writing me in Spanish. It’s pretty cool to be the go-to guy for a translation. For the most part, I’m learning by just being a friend. One guy is now living in Arizona but his soon-to-be ex-girlfriend is still in Mexico. Through chatting with him I’ve learned how to say alot of words that are used in relationships. Something you probably wouldn’t find in a book. This week has been really trying at work and I think having a good working relationship with my Mexican co-workers helped us get through the problems without losing our cool and yelling at each other or the customer. I feel that I’ve made some friends for life though learning Spanish. I’m still trying to listen to about 4 hours of Spanish radio a day, read 1 newspaper per week, and I’m about to start watching the news or something in Spanish. As for the radio, I’m understanding almost everything. I’m actually listening while I’m writing this and the guy is singing about a stone hearted woman. It’s so cool to know what the songs are about. I like Banda style music. I need to pick a song and learn it really well so I can kill at karaoke the next time I’m in Mexico. I think that I’m right on schedule with my learning. A lady that I respect told me when I first started that it would take about 4 years to get really good at the language (when not in total immersion). In 2 more years I should be good enough to switch into maintenance mode and less formal study and practicing flash cards. I still haven’t received my results from my Spanish exam. Hopefully I will have them in the next month or so. Perhaps I’ll take the level B2 exam in the fall. For me personally, I don’t care what some examiner says about my skill level. I know that I can communicate effectively. However, I know that the exam matters to employers, so it matters to me. It’s about time for me to transition out of the blood and guts of engineering into management or sales or something. I was looking at the average salaries for senior engineers and quite frankly I want to make more money than that. I think that if I transfer to a new location where I want to stay for a while I will start an MBA program immediately. Part of my motivation came this week when things went kind of crazy. I was thinking, “I don’t get paid enough for this level of responsibility.” It looks like some opportunities will open for me this year. If they don’t pan out, it will be time to shop around. My new business is keeping me extremely busy but I love it! I enjoy working on computers and it’s great to see the look on my customers’ faces when I bring their computers back to life. I’ve always hated taxes but now that I’m small business owner I realize how onerous they really are. It’s very difficult to give Uncle Sam his cut when I’m barely making anything and the money I do make goes right into purchasing more equipment. I don’t want to spend my time, after my full time job, filling out all this paper work. I just want to fix computers. I’m starting to learn that some jobs just aren’t worth taking and people will try to get a better price no matter what, so you can’t price your services too low. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t really matter. I started the business to fill my time while my wife is away. Making money is just a cool side effect. My goal is to eventualy make $200-$300 per week. That will keep me extremely busy but it will fund the development of my inventions and my other long term dreams. I was joking with my buddy who broke up with his girlfriend, saying that he would be getting married soon because the love bug would bite him. He replied, “no way, I will kill the fly of love before he can bite.” I don’t know why but, “ the fly of love,” had me cracking up all day. I need to do more reading on Mexican culture. I had a situation where the “say yes even though you can’t do it,” happened to me. It was very embarrassing for me because I passed the information on to a customer who was in urgent need of a part. The plant told me that they had shipped it, but they either just didn’t do it or they sent it to the wrong address. Instead of just telling me this, they strung me along for a few days saying, “We’re just waiting on the tracking number.” I would really like to understand the thinking that goes into conducting business this way so I can diffuse situations before they get out of control. Maybe just saying, “ If you didn’t send it, it’s ok, just make sure it goes out today,” would help. Who knows, but I don’t want to be in that position again. That’s about it for now. Take it easy. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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