Super Challenge Update thread 2014-15 (Language Learning Log) Language Learning Forum

Super Challenge Update thread 2014-15
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Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log

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rdearman
Senior Member
United Kingdom
rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5236 days ago
881 posts - 1812 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin

Message 65 of 198

31 May 2014 at 7:44pm | IP Logged

Kerrie wrote:

Personally, I'm tired of listening to you argue about your rank. The only person who cares is you. For me (and I think I can safely speak for the majority of people who signed up for this challenge), I care about what I do, and the progress that I make in my chosen languages. I have a tremendous respect for your language abilities, but your competitive nature (and your whining about ranking) is detrimental to the whole challenge for many people, and I wish you would stop.

I don't want to start this whole argument again and I don't want to cause offence to anyone. However previously I saw what I thought was a lot of "Serpent bashing" but I didn't say anything because it all seemed to be coming to an end and I didn't want to add fuel to the fire and because I'm just a newbie. But I would like to come out on the side of Serpent here.

I think a lot of people seemed to have taken the view that her idea of the SC being a competition and ranking herself against others is a bad thing. I don't believe that she has whined about the ranking system or about the way the challenge has been done. As near as I can see she has tried to be helpful to people where she could, and to point out errors or admissions to the BOT.

While I don't think she has expressed herself well on a lot of occasions (which might be because English isn't her first language) that doesn't mean she is whining. I have noticed her later posts were much more defensive which is understandable when everyone seems to be against you.

Lets face facts, some people ARE more motivated by competition than others. Everyone is different and what is makes the world an interesting place.

Also as a marathon runner I can tell you there are people in marathons whose goal is to WIN not to finish. Now I'm not in the mindset of an elite runner myself, but I know they exist. Serpent is one of the elite runners, and for her (like elite marathon runners) the timing system and the scoring are essential parts of the race. And she isn't just one of the elite runners, but one of the ones who run consecutive marathons weekly.

So while I'm not ever going to get to the top of the rankings in either marathon running or the SC, I'm happy to run at the back of the pack and cheer the elite runners ahead of me on.

And one more thing I would like to say personally to Serpent directly and publicly;

I'm ahead of you in Italian "WOOT!" :-)

5 persons have voted this message useful

diffuse
Newbie
United Kingdom
Joined 3867 days ago
12 posts - 21 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: French, German

Message 66 of 198

31 May 2014 at 7:46pm | IP Logged

Kerrie wrote:

For me (and I think I can safely speak for the majority of people who signed up for this challenge), I care about what I do, and the progress that I make in my chosen languages.

I definitely agree! As someone new to this board, and who registered here solely to join the SC, it's been really off-putting seeing so many people, and so much energy, devoted to scrapping over how rankings are displayed and whether people feel like they're visibly recognized in the way they see fit or whether they feel defeated because other people look like they're doing better.

So far I've read the first Harry Potter in French, and that makes me really happy! Because without the nudge of the SC -- to compete against myself with my own goals, as it were -- I'm not sure I would've done that, or not at this point in time. Honestly? No offense to everyone else, but I don't really care how you're doing. ;)
2 persons have voted this message useful

g-bod
Diglot
Senior Member
United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5982 days ago
1485 posts - 2002 votes

Speaks: English*, Japanese
Studies: French, German

Message 67 of 198

31 May 2014 at 7:49pm | IP Logged

VivianJ5 wrote:

g-bod wrote:

So our top two readers so far have both been hooked on
Twilight? Interesting!

Yeah, you're either a Twilight lover or a hater; there's no in-between ;-). I was in the
latter category (especially as an
English teacher) until I got hooked. What can I say - I'm a sucker for young angtsy-filled
love stories!

I think the real lesson to take from this is that when it comes to extensive reading, the
trashier the better!
2 persons have voted this message useful

VivianJ5
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4262 days ago
81 posts - 133 votes

Speaks: English*, French

Message 68 of 198

31 May 2014 at 7:57pm | IP Logged

Serpent wrote:

VivianJ5 wrote:

Serpent wrote:

Well, saying "you only compete with yourself" is not
enough. Just look at any other challenge.
Telling people to ignore the ranking is about as useless as telling them to
">ignore what they read online. (emk posted this link at some point) It also sounds hypocritical when coming
from people high on the list.

Sorry you feel this way. But if I'm supposed to feel bad for doing well in this particular challenge at this particular
time, well, sorry to disappoint you. I admit to being happy that this challenge works well for my way of learning.

The point isn't to "ignore the ranking," it's to use the ranking as a personal challenge, and push yourself just that
much harder. If I was an A2, I would never compare myself to a B2 - C1 in this type of challenge; I'd compare myself
to other A2s ... have to use common sense in this as in anything else.

External acknowledgement is nice - as in ranking in a challenge - but personal satisfaction is WAY more motivating,
in my book. You know if you've done well, even if there's no prize at the end. It's what I've always taught my
children, and my students. No one needs to tell me if I've done a good job or not, or if I've reached my goals.

No, I certainly don't want you to feel bad!

But just because it works like that for you, doesn't mean everyone is the same. I have enough internal motivation
without challenges, what they give me is external validation, a visible reflection of my progress. I'm actually not as
competitive as I might seem, for me it's more similar to getting compliments and praise.

:-). I hereby heartily compliment you, Serpent! You are passionate and stubborn, and I must say, passionate and
stubborn people make the best language learners. I know a little about that myself - at least, according to my
husband. Rational, logical people are just so boring sometimes ;-)...
2 persons have voted this message useful

Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6597 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, Finnish^C1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

Message 69 of 198

31 May 2014 at 7:58pm | IP Logged

Thanks for the support, rdearman! I like your comparison about elite runners :) And yeah, in the first SC I had the same excitement that many others are now experiencing, now I only feel it with Swedish, which is a new language for me.

(I don't think my problems are linguistic, but rather cultural. I come from a very direct culture and I'm not used to being subtle. Or frankly I don't necessarily see a point in subtlety, other than in art (which includes football for me;). Oh and it doesn't help that due to the timezone differences the most passionate discussions happen when I'm supposed to be sleeping :D)

Edited by Serpent on 31 May 2014 at 8:01pm
1 person has voted this message useful

RMM
Diglot
Groupie
United States
Joined 5227 days ago
91 posts - 215 votes

Speaks: English*, German
Studies: Italian, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Swedish, Japanese

Message 70 of 198

31 May 2014 at 8:29pm | IP Logged

Quote:

The point isn't to "ignore the ranking," it's to use the ranking as a personal challenge, and push yourself just that
much harder. If I was an A2, I would never compare myself to a B2 - C1 in this type of challenge; I'd compare myself
to other A2s ... have to use common sense in this as in anything else.

This would be easier if people's current level in each language was shown on the Twitter bot results page. Having missed the first month of the challenge, I was a bit dismayed to see how much some people were able to read in such a short time...until I remembered the challenge now included people in the "C" range of ability.

This sort of extreme difference in ability and speed in reading in foreign languages is one of the reasons I think the switch to 50 pages per book unit is a very good move. Of course, that means it's not that big of a challenge for advanced learners and especially fast readers, but at the same time, it means that the challenge is actually doable for those in the A1-A2-B1 levels and the big readers can always keep going for additional stars.

Naturally some people can read very quickly, but I think this change will help balance out time spent reading vs. listening much more fairly for the average reader than the way it used to be. Hopefully that will mean that people's passive skill sets will progress fairly evenly.

Quote:

Honestly? No offense to everyone else, but I don't really care how you're doing. ;)

But if that's the case, what's the point of having a public challenge where you publish your results? If one is only concerned with one's own accomplishments and doesn't care how anyone else is doing, then why not just stick your results in a Word document and not bother with posting or tweeting publicly? I thought the whole point of a public challenge was the idea that everyone following each other would encourage and/or (positively) pressure each participant to keep pushing forward toward his or her goals.

3 persons have voted this message useful

diffuse
Newbie
United Kingdom
Joined 3867 days ago
12 posts - 21 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: French, German

Message 71 of 198

31 May 2014 at 9:29pm | IP Logged

RMM wrote:

If one is only concerned with one's own accomplishments and doesn't care how anyone else is doing, then why not just stick your results in a Word document and not bother with posting or tweeting publicly?

*blinks* Because for me the Twitter bot is much more convenient for tracking than sticking it in a document. I find it easier to tweet from my phone, etc. I wouldn't mind if I couldn't see anyone else's tweets of record, nor they mine.
1 person has voted this message useful

Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6597 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes

Message 72 of 198

31 May 2014 at 9:31pm | IP Logged

g-bod wrote:

I think the real lesson to take from this is that when it comes to extensive reading, the trashier the better!

But that's hardly an option when you learn many languages :D Eddings is the trashiest it gets for me.

1 person has voted this message useful

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