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Esperanto a waste of time? | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Esperanto |  | |
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5519 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes  Speaks: Swedish* | Message 329 of 351 25 November 2010 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | |||||
Easy - what real language is that regular? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5343 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 330 of 351 26 November 2010 at 12:41am | IP Logged | |||||
I know I said I would refrain from further participation in this discussion, but I couldn't resist addressing this. What you propose would be akin to handing someone a plain-cover book and letting her examine the binding, type of paper, dimensions and weight -but not the written content- and then having her make a “logical” conclusion as to whether it contains a literary masterpiece or a collection of cooking recipes. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6548 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 331 of 351 26 November 2010 at 1:13am | IP Logged | |||||
Yeah, but you know what they say about analogies... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 6140 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian | Message 332 of 351 26 November 2010 at 1:18am | IP Logged | |||||
I rather disagree with your analogy, and think that Iversen's was quite right. The actual language itself, I think, should be compared to the content of the book, because the actual words and usage of the language is the language. People are free to say whatever they like about its origins and background and review and criticize it, but that doesn't change the actual content of the book (or the language). All of that is on the cover (or on the back) of the metaphorical book. Like you said though, it's what's on the inside that matters. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hoogamagoo Diglot Newbie United States Joined 6549 days ago 14 posts - 70 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto | Message 333 of 351 26 November 2010 at 4:40am | IP Logged | |||||
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A good analogy for language might be schools of art or music.
Generally, schools of art and music develop somewhat organically. You can see how these schools build on the previous ideas and break off into their own as technology changes or the techniques distort over time and distance. Language is similar, as you can follow etymologies of words and changes in grammar in the same sort of way. Also, art, music and language are all tools for self expression and communication. Imagine, if you will, an individual who develops a radically different method of composition or painting or sculpture. One that is intellectually distilled from earlier idea, but is really one person's idea. Some examples might be Picasso and Braque developing cubism, or Schoenberg's development of Twelve tone composition. These developments certainly had opposition and a lot of people still consider cubism and 12-tone to be trash and noise. Also, in the same way that Esperanto has a short history and "no culture," the 12 tone system and cubism were cultural anomalies - isolated, and without a tradition to build from. By the way, I don't mean to make the brash suggestion that Zamenhof was a genius like Schoenberg or Picasso - I just can't think of any similar cultural innovators off the top of my head that might make the same point without that implication. So, to ask a similar question. Is Cubism not worth studying because it is a distilled, intellectual development rather than an organic extension of its contemporary art forms? Is 12-tone composition not worth studying for similar reasons? You might not like it, but shooting it down for being "unnatural" or because it doesn't have a "culture" is not very reasonable. Is Esperanto not worth studying simply because of that? Edited by Hoogamagoo on 26 November 2010 at 4:41am 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| BobbyE Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5245 days ago 226 posts - 331 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 334 of 351 26 November 2010 at 8:20am | IP Logged | |||||
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I would be amazed if I ever encountered Esperanto in my life. That's just me though.
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 335 of 351 26 November 2010 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | |||||
A valid point, but that's why I mentioned Bahasa - no morphology, no stable word classes, only derivations (and lots of them!) which for a learner in spe seem to be based on the whims of the speakers. Actually one of the things that are interesting about Esperanto is that explicit grammatical rules - including the morphology - are so few and limited that you have few chances of breaking any rule. What you can break is some habits which have developed over time, and even the community of Esperantists have over time developed such habits. Edited by Iversen on 26 November 2010 at 12:29pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6701 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 336 of 351 26 November 2010 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
On the contrary, I invited you to have a look at the content, leaving out any external knowledge about the languages .... that's exactly the opposite of what you suggest. Actually I had not even imagined that anyone could overlook my references to specific content and believe that I was referring to the cover and type of paper - how did that happen? In case it was my reference to Teach yourself, I mentioned that series because it exemplifies the kind of content and structure I had just described in the sentence before. Edited by Iversen on 26 November 2010 at 12:27pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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