Listening-Reading system (Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies) Language Learning Forum

Listening-Reading system
Tags: Guide to Learning Languages \| Shadowing \| Alexander Arguelles \| Bilingual texts \| Listening-Reading (L-R) \| Audiobook \| Learning Technique/Method
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Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies	( Topic Closed)

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Zhuangzi
Nonaglot
Language Program Publisher
Senior Member
Canada
lingq.com
Joined 7025 days ago
646 posts - 688 votes

Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish
Studies: Russian

Message 193 of 489

26 July 2007 at 8:50pm | IP Logged

FSI

Where did you get the audio books of Paulo Coelho?

Listening content need not be limited to literary works. I have used history, news, podcasts, everyday conversation, radio talk show programs and more.

I have tried most commercially available systems. FSI is one the ones I like the least.
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FSI
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6356 days ago
550 posts - 590 votes

Speaks: English*

Message 194 of 489

26 July 2007 at 9:26pm | IP Logged

Zhuangzi,

From the "free/legal audiobooks" thread, I found it here. Track 4.1 doesn't work, which takes 3 minutes out of the story, but the entire reading is 7h14m long, so it's a small loss.

I agree with you about literary works - anything with a transcript will work. In the link above, there's an audiobook of "The Art of War", for folks who want to try Sun Tzu in Portuguese. That was actually my first choice for reading, until I opened the text and saw the organization of the text.

Vis-a-vis FSI, it was a great help while learning Spanish, but I found it impossibly dull for French. From what I've read, the quality varies widely from course to course. That said, I do not plan to use it for any more languages. There are so many other methods out there that don't involve drills, yet are just as capable as FSI is for teaching languages - without the boredom!
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tpiz
Diglot
Groupie
United States
cvillepayne.blogspot
Joined 6361 days ago
77 posts - 79 votes

Studies: Portuguese, English*, French
Studies: Mandarin, Japanese

Message 195 of 489

26 July 2007 at 10:54pm | IP Logged

Since I am not very good at portuguese yet, I am finding it hard to find the text, could you show me the link to it possibly?
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siomotteikiru
Senior Member
Zaire
Joined 6358 days ago
102 posts - 242 votes

Message 196 of 489

26 July 2007 at 11:35pm | IP Logged

PRONUNCIATION

www.stultorum.pochta.ru\AK_Eng_R\The_Italian_man_who_went_to _Malta.mp3

www.antimoon.com/other/myths-foraccent.htm
Myth #5:
"You are a foreigner, therefore you will always have a foreign accent"

Do I think that Zhuangzi's Russian is a disaster? I do. Major Disaster. General Consternation.
Why? Because it's a fact. Should I talk about it? I did not raise the subject. He did.

Do I get enraged when somebody tells me MY Eglish sucks? No, I don't.

Why do teachers say pronunciation is not (so) important?
1. Their own pronunciation sucks.
2. They have no idea how to teach it.
3. They are lazy, they do not care.

Everybody who is incapable of learning has taken to teaching.
Oscar Wilde

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Zhuangzi
Nonaglot
Language Program Publisher
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Canada
lingq.com
Joined 7025 days ago
646 posts - 688 votes

Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish
Studies: Russian

Message 197 of 489

26 July 2007 at 11:47pm | IP Logged

One small comment on free audio books. I think that the Internet is a great place for people to create content for others to use in order to learn languages. I think that much of this will be free and that there will be more and more of it.We intend to make this available at LingQ.

On the other hand I am happy to pay for a good audio book recorded by a professional. I know Maurizio Falghera, Il Narratore, who is dedicated to recording the works of Italian literature. He lives modestly with his wife and daughter. He is dedicated to his craft. His Pinochhio is simply wonderful. He records for the blind. This is his occupation. He deserves to earn an income from his activity. I buy audio books at his site. (www.ilnarratore.com).

Listening to a well done audio book is much more powerful and brings in more of the emotional side of the brain than listening to someone just read a book.

I bought a lot of Russian audio books in Riga recently. Some were subsidized by the Russian state.In a way the Russian tax payer is paying for me to enjoy listening to these wonderful audio books. It is not right in my opinion.

I pay to eat, to buy shoes, to travel, and to get a haircut. Why would I not be willing to pay for an audio book?

Edited by Zhuangzi on 26 July 2007 at 11:48pm
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Zhuangzi
Nonaglot
Language Program Publisher
Senior Member
Canada
lingq.com
Joined 7025 days ago
646 posts - 688 votes

Speaks: English*, French, Japanese, Swedish, Mandarin, Cantonese, German, Italian, Spanish
Studies: Russian

Message 198 of 489

27 July 2007 at 12:02am | IP Logged

siomotteikiru is of the anti-moon school which says that we have to strive for perfection from the beginning. I am of the opinion that perfection is not the goal. Uncertainty is the constant condition of the speaker of foreign languages. Perfection, and the pursuit of it, is a mirage and a great source of inhibitions.

My pronunciation in Russian is mine. As long as I do not consider it a disaster all is well. As long as I can communicate, and I enjoy listening and reading, all is well.

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siomotteikiru
Senior Member
Zaire
Joined 6358 days ago
102 posts - 242 votes

Message 199 of 489

27 July 2007 at 1:00am | IP Logged

Is good pronunciation important for the language learner?
It is.
Is good pronunciation difficult to learn?
It is not.

Quote:

Of far greater importance are problems with pronunciation. The biggest problem of all is that many students fail to fully appreciate that as English has not seven but twenty different vowel sounds, it is essential to be able to differentiate between them. Just making the nearest Polish sound is just not good enough if you wish to be understood - and what is even more important, if you cannot make these sounds properly it is usually because you are not hearing them accurately. In other words, your listening comprehension will be very weak. In my experience exactly the same students have listening problems as have difficulty separating their vowel sounds.
Eight of the English vowel sounds are diphthongs and are usually pronounced pretty well by Polish students. However the problems arise with the twelve pure vowel sounds: as in seat sit, soot, suit, set; curt, caught, cat, cut, cart & cot. (I have not included the short vowel called the schwa, as used in `a' and `the'.)
English is largely a monosyllabic language, and an English speaker always tries not to use long words. Hence his fondness for so-called `phrasal verbs' where two or three very short words are used instead of having to use one long word. But the problem with monosyllabic words is that they sound very much like other words, and often have only one sound different (as in cat and cut). There are literally thousands of such one-syllable words, so it is most important that we make all these vowels sound very different from each other. This is difficult for Polish speakers used to having only five non-nasal vowels.
As one of my students asked recently, `What is the difference between beach with sand and `beach' a female dog?' I had to point out that the dog was a bitch /bitS/, a completely different sound. A few days later he had another question. `What is the difference between the room we are in and `room' the drink?', he asked. This really had me puzzled! Eventually I realised that he must mean the alcoholic spirit distilled from sugar cane, `rum'. But `rum' is pronounced with the tongue low and forward in the mouth; `room' with the tongue high and far back. How had my student confused them? They don't even look the same! The only possible way must have been for the student to hear or see the word `room' and remember it as a Polish `u' sound, and then to see the word `rum' and file it under `u' as well.
But I promised to end with the most important mistake, so which sound shall I choose? Easy. Most Polish students, unless thoroughly taught by a good teacher, will fail to distinguish between the `seat' vowel and the `sit' vowel. Therefore I do not know whether a sailor jumped on a ship or a sheep; worse still, I often fail to hear the whole of the next sentence while I am trying to puzzle out the first. The Polish `i' vowel lies between the two English sounds, and is short like in `pin' but made with the tongue further forward, as in `pea'. Therefore your bin sounds like been, except that it is too short, so must be bin. But is it? And there you are. You have thoroughly confused your listener.
So, firstly practice making all these sounds to sound different, and then concentrate on making the long vowels (those with a /:/ after them in the phonetic transcription in your dictionary, as in beat, boot, bird, board and bard really long. This gives the listener two differences rather than one, so prevents confusion between words like `sin' and `scene' all together.
Yours,
John Williams

to Zhuangzi
Your pronunciation might not be important to you. But it IS important to your LISTENERS.

As to audiobooks.
If you can afford paying for them you should do it. I paid for most of mine. But ...
I remember ordering “The Name of the Rose” by Umberto Eco in the US of A, and had to wait for two years until they delivered it to me, and I had to pay in advance. And though they advertised it as an unabridged recording, it turned out it was CENSORED. CENSORSHIP IS RAMPANT IN THE US OF A. Did they lie to me? They did. Did they steal my money? They did.
The same happened (this time I had to wait for eight months) with the English “Anna Karenina”, I ordered it in the UK.

Happy-go-lucky Miss Hopper
likes to be done good and proper.

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fredomirek
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Poland
Joined 6903 days ago
265 posts - 264 votes

Speaks: Polish*, English^C1, Italian, Spanish
Studies: Portuguese, Japanese

Message 200 of 489

27 July 2007 at 2:46am | IP Logged

FSI,

are you learning Portuguese exclusively using the audiobook method? I'm wondering if you had had any previous contact with the language before starting this method?

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