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Listening-Reading system | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies | ( Topic Closed) |  |
| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6383 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes  Speaks: Latin* | Message 33 of 489 04 July 2007 at 5:17am | IP Logged | ||
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Lots of material that is loosely following the above method is found at:
http://english.franklang.ru/ 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6700 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 34 of 489 04 July 2007 at 6:05am | IP Logged | ||
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Congratulations, siomotteikuru, it is not often that I have to think a post over for several days before I have considered all its implications.
My first thought was: this looks like the way I have used the GLOSS-lessons, - there you have the original text, a translation plus an aural version all in one, though with shorter, non-literary texts. My next thought was: at which point in my own learning process would your method be most effective. I came to the result that I would want to know the basics of the language - some morphology, a minimal vocabulary plus knowledge about the phonematics of the language - before I started listening/reading. One reason for this is that it is timeconsuming and difficult to find your way round a written text unless you already have some training in reading that language, - this is especially true if you lose your place in the text and had to find it quickly again. With texts in another alphabet than your native one this is even more important. So I would think that your method gives the best results from somewhere round the level of a good beginner or intermediate fluency up to basic fluency. Then there is the question of using large (and generally difficult) texts. If you are to benefit from your reading of the translation I suppose you have to subdivide it into short sections of maybe a paragraph or two up to half a page at a time, - in your own words: "You only remember well what you understand and what you feel is "yours" psychologically ". I would lose that feeling for the first page of Anna Karenina if I had to read the whole book first. When you are advanced enough to skip the initial reading of the translation this of course doesn't apply any longer, and you can survive longer sections in one go. As you mention it is important to use texts that are interesting because of their content. For me that would not necessarily be literary texts,- there are a great number of books about science in reasonably good translations. Unfortunately you won't get any actor to read aloud a book about nuclear physics or zoology, - the availability of audiobooks is the main advantage I see in using the usual heap of literary masterworks. The quality of the translations is also all-important. They have to be as literal as possible, otherwise they will just be one more source of confusion. Ideally they should be so literal that they don't even conform to the rules of the language they are written in (however I see that siomotteikuru have another opinion on that). But such translations are in practice impossible to find, and you may have to accept translations that are more concerned with being good literature in their own right than telling you exactly what is in the original. I use one listening technique that is diametrally opposite to listening-reading, namely listening 'like a bloodhound follows a trail'. The main idea here is that you should listen without trying to translate or even understand, just follow (and subdividing) the stream of sounds and if you know enough words and grammar the meaning will pop up in your head just like when you listen to a language that you know well - you just need a better source and more concentration. However this can only done with success at a rather advanced stage, so listening with an exact transcript in your hand is by a wide margin the best alternative until then. You need to find aural sources with exact transcripts, but the use of audiobooks is of course the logical solution to that problem. No problem there, - the problem is to find usable translations into a language you know well. All in all I would say that your method is attractive and probably effective, and I'm going to think seriously about what I can use from it. Edited by Iversen on 04 July 2007 at 6:55am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| FSI Senior Member United States Joined 6356 days ago 550 posts - 590 votes Speaks: English* | Message 35 of 489 05 July 2007 at 10:07am | IP Logged | ||
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siomotteikiru,
A very interesting method! If you have more information or experiences to share while using the method to learn languages, I would like to hear them! Edit: Question. How often do you suggest someone using this method completes Step 3? (Reading the translation while listening to the text). You stated you L-R'd Kafka in German about 4 times in 4 days (10h/day). Would you recommend L-Ring the same book daily until it is completely internalized, or should the repetitions be spaced over days/weeks? Edited by FSI on 05 July 2007 at 11:23am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| siomotteikiru Senior Member Zaire Joined 6358 days ago 102 posts - 242 votes | Message 36 of 489 08 July 2007 at 11:34am | IP Logged | ||
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It might seem a little bit off topic, but in fact it isn't.
I've just read about Daniel Tammet, the guy who learned Icelandic in a week. To tell you the truth, I couldn't stop laughing. ANYONE CAN DO IT. Even me, and I am not an autistic savant, nor am I a genious (my IQ is 106, 60% of people). As I wrote above it's all about THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF EXPOSURE IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. And enjoying the process, of course. Happy-go-lucky Miss Hopper likes to be done good and proper Edited by siomotteikiru on 08 July 2007 at 11:35am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6436 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 37 of 489 08 July 2007 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | ||
Sure - I've heard of quite a few people who can do so. That said, I'd argue that the majority of people -do not- know how to do this. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| furyou_gaijin Senior Member Japan Joined 6383 days ago 540 posts - 631 votes Speaks: Latin* | Message 38 of 489 08 July 2007 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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Remembered another one: this one is a magnificent source for Japanese
texts. http://eloise.cocolog-nifty.com/rodoku/ 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tmesis Senior Member Mayotte Joined 6645 days ago 154 posts - 146 votes Speaks: English* | Message 39 of 489 08 July 2007 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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siomotteikiru,
You mentioned that it took you about 40 hours of using your L-R method to get generally comfortable in German. For a language not in the Indo-European family -- Japanese in your case -- how much time have you had to expend so far, and how comfortable do you feel in it? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| blindsheep Triglot Senior Member Spain Joined 6357 days ago 503 posts - 507 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: German | Message 40 of 489 09 July 2007 at 11:43am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to shadow parts of the text I'm reading, but I don't exactly understand the process.
Can someone explain to me exactly what shadowing is... is it imitating at the exact same time as you here it (which requires great timing) or is it saying a moment after? Thanks alot! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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