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Chung at work / Chung pri práci | ||
Tags: Azerbaijani | Uzbek | Turkic languages | Uralic Languages | Slovak | Comic Strip/Cartoon | Serbian | Serbo-Croatian | Ukrainian | Croatian | Endangered Language | Linguistics | Hungarian | Finnish | Turkish | Polish | Korean | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7162 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 337 of 541 18 June 2013 at 12:32am | IP Logged | |||||
Alespoň jeden člověk čte můj deník. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4865 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish | Message 338 of 541 18 June 2013 at 1:20am | IP Logged | |||||
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Nejen jeden.
As a little challenge, I will write in Polish: Po pierwsze, świetne są te paski z komiksami. Po drugie, widzę, że chcesz zawładnąć Europą Środkową jeszcze bardziej niż Grzybeczek. Po trzecie i najważniejsze - FANTASTYCZNA analiza różnic między chorwackim i serbskim! Chorwacki to moja niespełniona miłość, więc na pewno się przyda. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| stelingo Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5838 days ago 722 posts - 1076 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Czech, Polish, Greek, Mandarin | Message 339 of 541 18 June 2013 at 8:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
Já take čtu tvůj deník se zájmem. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7162 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 340 of 541 04 July 2013 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm happy to see that the log has a small following.
I'm also happy to see that the comparison within BCMS/SC is positively received, small as the target readership is. Scouring Croatian and Serbian forums, not to mention descriptive dictionaries puts in perspective what we're taught in our textbooks or courses which by definition have a prescriptive bias. Given past discussions on the subject which ultimately deteriorated into ethnically or politically-tinged pissing matches, I like to think that sticking to language and examples from textbooks for foreigners gives the best chance for analysis and blunts the nationalist impulses in the prescriptivism masquerading as comparisons in books for the general public in the Balkans (e.g. Ćirilov, Jovan. Srpsko hrvatski rečnik varijanti / Hrvatsko srpski rječnik inačica Beograd: Stilos, 1989 and Brodnjak, Vladimir. Razlikovni rječnik srpskog i hrvatskog jezika. Zagreb: Školske novine, b, 1991.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5172 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 341 of 541 04 July 2013 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Your log sounds to me like a huge SPOILER, Chung. It really should come with that disclaimer. After all, nearly all of those languages of yours in Eastern Europe are in my list. I get really envy when I see the notes on BCSM and Czech, and the comparisons on word usage gives us important insights on sociolinguistics.
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| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7162 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 342 of 541 05 July 2013 at 4:14am | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm glad that it keeps you interested, Expugnator. Now, if only we could see a Finno-Ugric language in your profile of languages being studied...
I've come back from my trip through Finland and Serbia with a greater will to keep studying Finnish and at least finish working through TY Serbian and/or Beginner's Serbian. My intention for the latter had been merely to review my knowledge of BCMS/SC for my trip using those books without regard to finishing either of them. However the opportunity cost is still lessened involvement in my other languages, not to mention little expected progress on adding sections to that guide on Uralic languages. While in Serbia I visited a few bookstores checking out learning material for foreigners wanting to learn on their own, and regarding textbooks concluded that they're probably still well served by what's already available outside the Balkans (e.g. "Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian. A Textbook", "Spoken World Croatian", "Teach Yourself Serbian"). The native textbooks weren't all that remarkable and the newer titles (e.g. "Srpski za strance") are suitable for classrooms. On the other hand, a couple of the larger English <> Serbian dictionaries are quite good and make good (and up-to-date) alternatives to Benson's older English <> Serbo-Croatian dictionaries. I am referring to Danko Šipka's Savremeni englesko-srpski i srpsko-engleski rečnik I-II and Boris Hlebec's Standardni srpsko-engleski rečnik and Standardni englesko-srpski rečnik sa engleskom gramatikom (Hlebec has also compiled an even larger Serbian-English dictionary). Unlike the contemporaneous and comparably large English-Croatian and Croatian-English dictionaries by Željko Bujaš, the dictionaries by Šipka and Hlebec do have the English-speaking learner in mind by providing aspectual pairs and/or inflectional hints beside Serbian headwords where applicable, as well as markings for stress and pitch-accent. In addition, these dictionaries put Serbian entries in Cyrillic rather than Latinic, and consequently the sequence of the Serbian headwords follows the Cyrillic alphabet rather than the Latinic one. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5172 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 343 of 541 05 July 2013 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
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They are all on queue, Chung. Estonian is the finno-ugric one and Czech and Serbian are the Slavic ones I want to do once I've brought at least one of my current beginner's languages (Russian, Chinese and Georgian) up to a basic reading fluency level. It is likely to take at least 1 1/2 year, though.
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| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7162 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 344 of 541 12 July 2013 at 6:12am | IP Logged | |||||
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BCMS/SC
I finished working through Chapter 12 of “Teach Yourself Serbian”. The dialogues contained more dialogues about travelling and dealing with timetables and tickets. The grammatical topics introduced included reflexive verbs, dates, dative, locative and instrumental for personal pronouns and adjectives, dates, and inflection of ovaj “this”, sav “all” and moj “my”. 
(From Strip Vesti – internet nedeljnik) 1) “Unbelievable, you’re breaking into your own house.” 2) “[It’s] Practice, Cane. Regular practice is the path to success.” - provaljivati > provaliti (provaljujem, provaljuju > provalim, provale) “to break into” [of thieves] (проваљивати > провалити (проваљујем, проваљују > провалим, провале) Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary) (this will be put in both scripts partially to accommodate those unused to Serbian Cyrillic and also so that I get at least a little bit of practice using the keyboard layout for Serbian Cyrillic). NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular) VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb]) ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given See here for the rationale of the excursus devoted to comparing Croatian and Serbian using the dialogues of “Beginner’s Croatian” and “Beginner’s Serbian” published by Hippocrene Books. Resources include descriptive dictionary of standard Croatian based on the work of Anić et al., Benson’s SerboCroatian-English Dictionary, Alexander’s Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian, a Grammar: With Sociolinguistic Commentary and discussions on usage in BCMS/SC from Unilang and WordReference. Chapter 12 1) Cr: razgledavanje | Sr: razgledanje “sightseeing” These words are derived from the verbs razgledavati and razgledati respectively and are synonyms used in all variants of BCMS/SC. The entry for razgledvati in the descriptive dictionary of standard Croatian redirects to razgledati. The difference here is thus not ethnically-definable. 2) Cr: kavana | Sr: kafana “café” See here for notes on kava vs. kafa. 3) Cr: šetnica | Sr: šetalište “promenade, walk” Both words are used in all variants of BCMS/SC and for the purposes of the dialogue act as synonyms. However the entry for šetnica in the descriptive dictionary of standard Croatian indicates that it’s a literary term for a space meant for taking a stroll. *** FINNISH I’ve finished the exercises for Unit 4 in FSI’s workbook which let me practice using the past indicative tenses (i.e. simple, compound, pluperfect), third infinitive and time expressions. 
(From Oswald - Sarjakuva) 1) “Are you coming to play pesäpallo?* - I can’t, mom and dad are taking me to the zoo.” 2) “Oh really? Well, I promise to come see you sometime.” 3) “Hopefully they feed him to the lions.” *Pesäpallo (literally “nest ball”) is a team sport that is somewhat similar to baseball. Convention for unfamiliar vocabulary in the comic strip (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary) NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular, partitive singular, partitive plural) VERBS: 1st infinitive (1st person singular present tense, 3rd person singular past simple tense, active past participle) ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given *** UKRAINIAN I’ve finished the exercises for Chapter 6 on pgs. 106-7 in “Modern Ukrainian” and have begun doing L-R with the dialogues in Chapter 7. The exercises were reading comprehension questions of the dialogues and short passages in the chapter. 
(From Комікси/меми по-українські) 1) “I love you. – I love you too” 2) “I guess that we were made for each other.” 3) “I don’t think that I can date a creationist.” Convention for vocabulary in the comic strip that's unfamiliar to me (i.e. needed to consult a dictionary) NOUNS & ADJECTIVES: nominative singular (genitive singular) VERBS (where applicable using convention of imperfective > perfective): infinitive (1st person singular present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb], 3rd person plural present tense [imperfective verb] / future tense [perfective verb]) ADVERBS & INTERJECTIONS: no extra information given *** OTHER LANGUAGES Nothing of note apart from slight guilt about being this focused on BCMS/SC, Finnish and Ukrainian at the expense of the other languages. ______ 
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