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Understudied European languages | ||
Tags: European Languages | Rare Languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4621 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 57 of 85 29 August 2013 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | |||||
Have you actually heard a Dutch person express this point of view? I don't believe for a minute that if I moved to the Netherlands and started making progress with Dutch that people would regard ths as somewhat strange. I think it would be warmly accepted. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5008 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 58 of 85 29 August 2013 at 10:10pm | IP Logged | |||||
Excuse me but I will speak frankly to put some light into what I said and why I meant it. The Czechs should have stayed with German language and Austrian empire. Russian was never an option because it was language of occupants and of countries drying the Czechoslovakia of everything from food to technology and uran. Unlike the Austrian Empire, we were never part of the Russian state, which would have been probably the only thing worse that could have happened in the 20th century. Before, in the Austria-Hungary empire, we had everything except the language equallity, we were the industrial heart of the country with most progressive laws and civil rights in Europe, a place where several cultures lived together to the benefit of all. And after the WW1, the Empire got divided into small pieces easily conquerable by both nazis and communists subsequentally. And it is not true that "the Czechs didn't embrace German". In the 18th century, Czech was only used by the most poor people, it was naturally dying out until a few intellectuals decided to revive it. And now they are presented in schools as heroes. Nowadays, we are free of both 20th century powers but we have still got lower life standard than Austria, we have the stigma of former easter europe and too high % of Czechs, who you call proud of their country and language, are stupid shortsighted envious idiots who voted for president alcoholic paid by russians who disrespects the constitution and shames our country anywhere he goes. And they applaud. Generations of Czechs let corruption, greed and envy destroy what once was one of the best countries to live in and what could have had the same living standard as Austria or Switzerland. So, don't tell me to be proud of my country and language, there is nothing to be proud of. Not since the 15th century or so. Especially in comparison with Italy and Italian, which is seemingly in similar position. But everywhere in the world, people know something awesome that came from Italy. Usual American can't tell the Czech Republic from Chechnia. And the few great Czech inventions (such as the contact lenses) were sold elsewhere. And if the language was so beneficial for immigrants, than why such high % of immigrants doesn't learn it? The answer is simple. The only benefit would be the Czech culture and it is not worth the efforts. Basically the only immigrants learning Czech are the poor ones from Ukraine, Croatia or Russia. Even rich Russians don't learn Czech, just as the Americans, French, Italians and so on mostly don't. I am not hoping for my country to embrace English, that would be nonsense. English is a foreign language far far away. But if this country had a single opportunity to join Germany in exchange for the language, I wouldn't cry over it. So, as I said in past. I sympathise and em excited for success of everyone who decides to learn Czech and finds uses for it. But in general, I don't think there is not so much to gain. Edited by Cavesa on 29 August 2013 at 10:12pm 8 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| nonneb Pentaglot Groupie SpainRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4750 days ago 80 posts - 173 votes Speaks: English*, Ancient Greek, Latin, German, Spanish Studies: Mandarin, Hungarian, French | Message 59 of 85 29 August 2013 at 10:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'd say Portuguese, the 6th most spoken language in the world and with its influence on the rise, is the most understudied by a long shot. Sure, there aren't a lot of Hungarian or Slovakian students, but those languages aren't really major players in international business or culture in the way that Portuguese is. The catch is, most of the reasons for learning Portuguese have relatively little to do with the fact that it's a national language of Europe. As far as more European languages are concerned, I'm generally surprised by how few people learn Polish and Turkish (is that European?), but I think Turkish is picking up, at least judging by the book selection when I went to Mayersche a few months ago.
On the other side of the spectrum, Italian easily seems to be the most overstudied to me. Relatively small speaker base, relatively little cultural output (compared to other major languages), and it's really only useful in one country. Now, if you want to get into that one country, that's great, but it's unusual that so many people are that interested in a language with its footprint. This is even more true for students in most of the States, where Italy isn't a popular tourist destination or a neighbor. Compare to Korean, which has a few more speakers and produces a lot more media (not sure how the economy compares to Italy), but has nowhere near the learner base of Italian among the general population. Just to be clear, I'd love to learn Italian and think it's a fascinating country, a feeling I have about a lot of countries and languages. I just can't figure out why it wins out over so many other languages for such a large number of learners. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 60 of 85 29 August 2013 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's a shame. I guess I'll never learn Czech then. And I want to learn Czech...
I imagine there are some cases where they'd be a little confused but accept it after that. It also depends on who we're talking about; a Pole in some factory or an American expat. Edited by tarvos on 29 August 2013 at 10:19pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5008 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 61 of 85 29 August 2013 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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If you want to learn Czech for personal or emotional reasons (you just like it or found something relevant to you), it is just as good decision as to learn any other small language with little practical use.
I was just explaining why I don't believe Czech is being understudied. I believe it is studied exactly as much as it deserves. nonneb, Italy may not be among the most popular destinations for the US but there are many heritage learners. Many. While the hispanic heritage lies in the south and has been pouring into the US for much shorter time. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4706 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 62 of 85 29 August 2013 at 10:38pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The Czech Republic is cool. I like the Czech Republic. I just don't give a hoot about
politics (anymore), it's shit everywhere. And I liked the Czechs when I was there. I generally like Eastern Europe, folk tend to be more hospitable... less of that western-y "run everywhere, don't say hi" kind of feel. Prague made me feel like I was in the middle ages. Beautiful sort of decadence. You just don't get that in modern, bustling metropolises. I rather learn the language of a country that has cemeteries with the stones upturned and moved around and randomly ordered than the Dutch cemeteries where all stones are invented with rulers and neatly arranged... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7155 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 63 of 85 29 August 2013 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I have to agree with the spirit of Cavesa's points, despite the harshness of them and my general affinity for Eastern Europe.
As European languages go, Czech is indeed about as useful as Slovak, or Hungarian, or Estonian, or any European language without a colonial or imperial edge to it. I do find it a little odd that beano, presumably a Scotsman, is quite supportive of Czech, whereas Cavesa, a native Czech, associates such support with parochial compatriots who are indirectly holding back progress in the country. I have no illusions that learning languages of a low profile will lead to a significant benefit in my professional, socioeconomic or even personal standing. At the same time, and with no false modesty, I'm secure enough to dig into them anyway for the pure hell of it. As I've noted in that thread about the supposed superiority in focusing on one language at a time rather than a handful, what I do now for learning languages is gravy. So long as I enjoy it, the arguing over usefulness or uselessness and related points on what's understudied (relative to what?) and overstudied (again, relative to what?) is disjointed (e.g. "Czech is useless. - It isn't if you live in Czech Republic. Look how many people speak it!. - What if you don't live in Czech Republic or have no realistic chance to go there?" and so on.) 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4621 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 64 of 85 29 August 2013 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
There are strong Italian communities in many cities and countries. Scotland is full of Italian restaurants and fish & chip shops, also ice cream parlours. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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