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Totally opposite concepts in languages. | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Derian Triglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5307 days ago 227 posts - 464 votes  Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Czech, French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 1 of 43 03 June 2010 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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Do you come across things in your target language(s) that are totally opposite to those in your native language and therefore give you a whole lot of trouble??
In Polish, I know it's often confusing to foreigners that the word 'no' means yes (precisely yup, or yeah), especially to the native speakers of Romance languages, as it is pronounced the same as their 'no', meaning no. For me, one thing that gives me trouble in speaking Japanese is the question marker 'ka', which you put at the end of a sentence in order to form a question. Kore wa neko desu. --- This is a cat. Kore wa neko desu ka. -- Is this a cat? [Putting a question mark is unnecessary as the 'ka' ending already signifies a question.] The concept of forming an interrogative sentence by adding the 'ka' at the end of the sentence is totally opposite to how we do it in Polish, where we add the particle 'czy' at the beginning of a sentence to make it into a question, e.g.: To jest kot. --- This is a cat. Czy to jest kot? -- Is this a cat? [In colloquial speech we often don't even use 'czy', but we use intonation to express interrogation. So, "To jest kot" with rising intonation is a question.] ---------------- Because of this, I can NEVER remember to add the 'ka' at the end of a japanese sentence, when speaking in Japanese, to make it a question. I usually say: Kore wa neko desu (with rising intonation)... then think for a second, and then I go... Oh - KA!! :) Edited by Derian on 03 June 2010 at 6:47pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Volte Tetraglot Senior Member Switzerland Joined 6438 days ago 4474 posts - 6726 votes Speaks: English*, Esperanto, German, Italian Studies: French, Finnish, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 2 of 43 03 June 2010 at 8:03pm | IP Logged | ||
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I consider the Polish 'no' more like 'well' than 'yeah'.
I found 'ka' to be extremely easy and useful, and picked it up pretty much instantly. Esperanto mirrors Polish, with 'cxu'; it was also very easy. That said, in general, I do find that in general, things which are quite different from in languages I already speak can be a problem. The focus on aspect in Slavic languages isn't easy for me, for instance. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Derian Triglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5307 days ago 227 posts - 464 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Czech, French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 3 of 43 03 June 2010 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | ||
2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Euphorion Hexaglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5339 days ago 106 posts - 147 votes Speaks: Slovak*, Czech, EnglishC2, GermanC1, SpanishC2, French | Message 4 of 43 03 June 2010 at 8:20pm | IP Logged | ||
I would say that the Polish 'no' really is like 'yeah'. But you are right, it can mean 'well' too, for example at the beginning of a sentence. It works the same in Czech and Slovak, meaning 'yeah', 'well' and also 'but' in some cases. But to your topic questions - I would say that gender of nouns can be an important difference in concepts. What comes into my mind now is especially German vs. Czech, Slovak or other Slavic languages. For example the word spoon - der Löffel in German, that is masculine vs. lyžica in Slovak or lžíce in Czech which are both feminine words. Even though I doubt there is a reasoning for either of them :) And I must honestly admit too, that there are often differences in gender within a single language. For my grandmother in Slovakia (and the people of that region) the word for 'garage' is masculine and the word for 'bicycle' is feminine. My other gradfather who lives some 200 kilometres away says it the other way round (which is entre nous correct). Or in some parts of Spain they say la mar while el mar is correct. Learn foreign languages, it is easy! ;) Edited by Euphorion on 03 June 2010 at 8:22pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ellasevia Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2011 Senior Member Germany Joined 6141 days ago 2150 posts - 3229 votes Speaks: English*, German, Croatian, Greek, French, Spanish, Russian, Swedish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italian Studies: Catalan, Persian, Mandarin, Japanese, Romanian, Ukrainian | Message 5 of 43 03 June 2010 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | ||
There is a similar problem in Greek, which always drives my friends crazy when I start teaching them some basic words and phrases: yes = ναι (ne); it sounds more like 'no' no = όχι (ohi); it sounds sort-of like 'okay' In Japanese a lot of the reordering of things (relative clauses are now my enemy in that language) is really different and hard to remember... 友達がくれた痛み止めはよく効きました。 (tomodachi ga kureta itamidome wa yoku kikimashita) "The painkiller that my friend gave me worked well." lit: "friend-gave painkiller well worked" これは山田さんが入院している病院です。(ko re wa Yamada san ga nyūin shite iru byōin desu) "This is the hospital where Mr. Yamada is hospitalized." lit: "this Yamada-Mr.-hospitalized-being hospital is" 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7155 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 6 of 43 03 June 2010 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | ||
When using interrogative sentences that don't use an interrogative pronoun I'm used to using intonation that changes somewhere toward the end of the question (either on the last syllable or the second-last syllable) regardless of whether there's an interrogative particle or not. This has applied to all of my target languages to-date except for Estonian and Finnish. Strictly speaking the interrogative particle ("kas" in Estonian) or suffix ("-ko/-kö" in Finnish) means that a question can have the same intonation as a statement (i.e. generally falling from the beginning to the end) As it happens, I've become very accustomed to rising intonation when asking questions but the interrogative particles or changes in word order don't cause much trouble for me. ia) (Rising intonation somewhere near the end plus verb-initial syntax) Mluvíš anglicky? (Czech) Parles-tu anglais? (French) Sprichst du Englisch? (German) Beszélsz angolul? (Hungarian) Vorbi englezeşte? (Romanian) Hovoríš po anglicky? (Slovak) ib) (Rising intonation somewhere near the end plus interrogative particle or auxillary - optional or not) Da li govoriš / Govoriš li engleski? (BCMS / Serbo-Croatian) Do you speak English? (emphasized or excessively-marked question: You speak English???) Sa räägid inglise keelt??? (Estonian - excessively-marked question) (Ar) tu kalbi angliškai? (Lithuanian) (Czy) mówisz po angielsku? (Polish) Ali govoriš angleško? (Slovenian) (Chy) ty hovoryš anhliyskoyu? (Ukrainian) ii) (No rising intonation near the end) Kas sa räägid inglise keelt? (Estonian - "Kas" is like Polish "czy") Puhutko englantia? (Finnish - -ko is the interrogative suffix) However I have caught myself sometimes using rising intonation in these instances with Estonian and Finnish anyway (i.e. interference from all of the other languages). As an extension of this, I sometimes forget to use "-ko/-kö" in Finnish because my brain has noted that I've marked the question already by using rising intonation or a question mark per conventions in languages other than Finnish. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Derian Triglot Senior Member PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5307 days ago 227 posts - 464 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Spanish, Russian, Czech, French, Mandarin, Japanese | Message 7 of 43 03 June 2010 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | ||
That's exactly the thing. A different, opposite, process occurs in written Spanish with the question marks that one places not only at the end of a sentence, like in most languages, but also at the beggining of a sentence (¿...question...?). Even though I have the intention of writing a question, my brain doesn't have the need to mark it before I reveal the actual content of the sentence I'm about to type/write, and so I often forget to put the initial question mark. Edited by Derian on 03 June 2010 at 10:26pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| mick33 Senior Member United States Joined 5923 days ago 1335 posts - 1632 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Finnish Studies: Thai, Polish, Afrikaans, Hindi, Hungarian, Italian, Spanish, Swedish | Message 8 of 43 03 June 2010 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have a less complicated example from Afrikaans. A common colloquial expression you might hear, or read, is "ja-nee" which literally translates as"yes-no" but usually means "yeah". After hearing "ja-nee" a few times I understand it, but at first it was a little confusing. Edited by mick33 on 04 June 2010 at 12:07am 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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