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Koine Greek Translation Discussion Thread | ||
Tags: Ancient Greek | Translation | ||
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| Sir Lunch-a-lot Groupie Canada Joined 5530 days ago 58 posts - 64 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Ancient Greek | Message 9 of 28 15 July 2010 at 9:03am | IP Logged | ||
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Question pertaining to Genesis 12:4 in the septuagint: "και επορευθη Αβραμ" - why, if this is translated as an active verb (and Abram went) is the Greek verb passive? After all, one cannot "be went", right? Perhaps I shall post a copy of this query in the Koine discussion thread. Am I missing something here (perhaps this is not a 3rd person aorist passive verb, but something else that looks like one)? Is this something idiomatic?
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| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6126 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 10 of 28 15 July 2010 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | ||
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No, you are correct ἐπορεύθη is the 3rd Person Singular Aorist Passive Indicative. However, πορεύομαι is a deponent verb. Deponent verbs are "passive in form but active in meaning."
For a similar example, see 2 Tim 4:10. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5851 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 11 of 28 15 July 2010 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | ||
Same as in Latin, where deponent verbs also exist. Fasulye 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sir Lunch-a-lot Groupie Canada Joined 5530 days ago 58 posts - 64 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Ancient Greek | Message 12 of 28 16 July 2010 at 6:26am | IP Logged | ||
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Doh! I should have caught that! I guess for some reason I was thinking that it ought to be in the middle, not passive (since the lexical form would appear as a middle). Thank you for pointing that out.
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| Reisender Triglot Newbie Italy Joined 5455 days ago 30 posts - 44 votes Speaks: German*, English, Italian Studies: Spanish, Latin, Ancient Greek, French | Message 13 of 28 16 July 2010 at 9:42am | IP Logged | ||
It gets even weirder, if my memory serves me right: There are some deponent verbs which may be active, passive or medium in meaning. And in some tenses, there's no way to tell. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6126 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 14 of 28 16 July 2010 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here is an interesting linguistic insight that I have come up with:
In John 20:28, the Apostle Thomas called Jesus ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου. This appears to me to be equal to Κύριος ὁ Θεὸς ἡμῶν in Deut 6:4 of the Septuagint Thus Thomas is saying that Jesus is יהוה אלהינו(Yahweh Elohenu) as in the Great Shema of Israel: Deut 6:4: Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! Edited by JW on 16 July 2010 at 9:29pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Romanist Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5286 days ago 261 posts - 366 votes Studies: Italian | Message 15 of 28 21 July 2010 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | ||
I seem to remember reading in my textbook ('Elements of New Testament Greek', by J. Duff) that the word "Κύριος" is always used in Koine Greek in place of "Jehovah" - which is presumably the same as "Yahweh"? (And as we all know, the word "Θεὸς" means "God".) So yes, the way I would understand this, Thomas is saying something like: "My Jehohvah is my God" or "My Jehovah is the true God", etc. (However I'm very far from having any expertise in Koine Greek, alas!) Edited by Romanist on 21 July 2010 at 12:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| JW Hexaglot Senior Member United States youtube.com/user/egw Joined 6126 days ago 1802 posts - 2011 votes 22 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Biblical Hebrew Studies: Luxembourgish, Dutch, Greek, Italian | Message 16 of 28 21 July 2010 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes, the original Hebrew is יהוה (YHWH). This is called the "sacred tetragrammaton" from the Greek τετραγράμματον "a word having four letters." Yahweh (YaHWeH) and Jehovah (YeHoWaH) are just different ways of inserting vowel points (Hebrew has no vowels) and the yod can be transliterated as a Y or a J into English and the vav can be transliterated as a W or a V into English. Edited by JW on 21 July 2010 at 3:28pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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