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Chung at work / Chung pri práci | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 57 of 541 02 August 2011 at 6:28am | IP Logged | |||||
Thank you for following along. It's interesting to read your comments about the different spellings. My impression is that spelling in Inari Saami aligns somewhat better with pronunciation than in Northern Saami. In Northern Saami, voiced sounds such as b, d, g, or z (dz) are pronounced more like p, t, k, or c (ts). This means that the pronunciation of Northern Saami buorre beaivi as an example sounds more similar to Inari Saami pyeri peivi than it appears as the "b" is pronounced more like "p". 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 58 of 541 03 October 2011 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I've just come back from another trip and feel set to resume my studies. For the rest of the year at least I'm working on Finnish, Northern Saami, Hungarian, Polish and Slovak in that order.
For Finnish, I'm a little unsure whether I should use FSI Conversational Finnish or the audio-visual course "Kuulostaa hyvältä" as the main set of material. Each one has its strengths and weaknesses and it may turn out that I'll combine the two. The goal is to continue improving my abilities and possibly move from being somewhere between A1 and A2 to A2 by year's end. For additional practice, I'd also be watching episodes of Supisuomea with and without the Finnish subtitles. For Northern Saami, I have no such problem with choosing material since Davvin 1 is the only structured course that I have. I'm planning on completing at least half of the course by year's end. Ultimately I'd like to complete all of Davvin 1 and from that point I'd figure whether I continue with Davvin 2 which is already on my shelf. For Hungarian, I've drawn a bit of inspiration after having revisited Hungary in September. I'm thinking of keeping it loose by reading the Hungarian translation of "Histoires inedités du Petit Nicolas, tome 1" and working through at least one of "Hallo, itt Magyarorszag!", "Assimil Hungarian with Ease" or "Learn Hungarian!". Using FSI or DLI Hungarian would be more intense than I'm willing to venture right now. When visiting bookshops in Budapest I was considering buying a few native courses in Hungarian for foreigners such as "Lépésenként magyarul" and "Jó szórakozást magyarul!" but the rather high cost for even my standards turned me off, and the materials themselves didn't seem to be overly suitable for my tastes despite being visually attractive. My plans for Polish and Slovak are rather similar to Hungarian but at lower intensity as I drew some new inspiration after having revisited Poland and Slovakia respectively last month. For Polish, I am planning to work slowly through "Kiedyś tam wrócisz I" while for Slovak I would be working slowly through "Slovenčina ako cudzí jazyk B". For both languages I also plan to read short stories in both languages. As it seems, the entries over the next few months will be dominated by stuff about Finnish and Northern Saami. I'll likely be summarizing my work through Davvin 1 by chapter as I had done when using "Sämikielâ" for Inari Saami. I like the idea of giving extra exposure to an endangered language for those who would ordinarily be discouraged from studying such a language because of the lack of teaching material in a widely-known intermediary language. When the time comes for the next 6-week challenge, I may enter with Finnish, Northern Saami or Mari, with the last language being studied using the (to-date partial) translation in English of the Russian "Марийский язык для всех" (Mari language for everyone). 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 59 of 541 07 October 2011 at 6:38am | IP Logged | |||||
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NORTHERN SAAMI
I have completed Chapter 1 of Davvin 1 and was introduced to the pronunciation of a few letters that would likely be new for speakers of Finnish (my copy of Davvin 1 is meant for speakers of Finnish), and a few points about greetings. One aspect that I like about Davvin 1 is that each chapter highlights some aspect of dialectal usage as Northern Saami can be divided broadly into distinct eastern and western dialects. This kind of attention reminds me of an earlier comment made by yangbowen for the Finno-Ugric Profile in that learners of Northern Saami should "settle" on a dialect in order to develop some consistency when using Northern Saami. 1) pronunciation of a few letters á is pronounced in western dialect similarly to Finnish aa, but in eastern dialect similarly to Finnish ää c is pronounced similarly to English ts and often with a slight initial h z is pronounced similarly to English ts but never with the slight initial h č is pronounced similarly to English ch in church ž is pronounced like a shorter version of English ch in church and can never occur initially in spelling. đ is pronounced similarly to English this 2) greeting or taking leave with one person To initiate a greeting, one usually says Buore beaivvi "Good day", Buore iđit "Good morning" or Buore eahket "Good evening" as appropriate. In response, the second person says Ipmel atti "Let God give!" rather than repeating the initiating greeting. When greeting someone with a handshake, the first person says Bures while the second one replies with Bures or Bures, bures. Bures roughly corresponds to "hello" but again occurs when shaking hands. Upon taking leave, the one who is leaving says Báze dearvan "Stay in health", while the one who is staying replies Mana dearvan "Go in health". These customs take a little practice to get used to for speakers of many languages. Vocabulary of Chapter 1 báze dearvan - "goodbye" (see 2) above) biila - "car" boahtá - "comes" (3rd person singular) boddu - "moment"; "lesson" bures - "hello" (see 2) above) buore beaivvi - "good day" (see 2) above) buore eahket - "good evening" (see 2) above) buore iđit - "good morning" (see 2) above) busse - "bus" (bus'se) de - "now" ipmel atti - "good day", "good evening", "good morning" (see 2) above) lean - "(I) am" mana dearvan - "goodbye" (see 2) above) mun - "I" sánit - "words" vuosttaš - "first" Numbers 1-12 (number of pages in the chapter) okta - 1 guokte - 2 golbma - 3 njeallje - 4 vihtta - 5 guhtta - 6 čieža - 7 gávcci - 8 ovcci - 9 logi - 10 oktanuppelohkái - 11 guoktenuppelohkái - 12 Examples of Northern Saami taken from my answers to the exercises. 1. Mun lean Chung. 2. Buore beaivvi, Chung. - Ipmel atti. 3. Dá boahtá busse. - Báze dearvan! 4. Dá boahtá Máret. - Buore beaivvi! *** Miscellaneous impressions i) My earlier studies of Inari Saami have been helpful in making Northern Saami seem even less intimidating than otherwise. ii) The spelling convention of Northern Saami is a little tricky to grasp. An example of trickiness is the convention where symbols often expressing voiced sounds in other languages express unvoiced sounds in Northern Saami (see message no. 57 in this log). Another example is that many clusters of triple consonants are often pronounced somewhat differently from what appears (e.g. guhtta "six" is pronounced more like kuhhta - i.e. despite there being double "t" after the "h", it is the "h" instead of the "t" that is lengthened in pronunciation) Edited by Chung on 11 October 2011 at 5:03pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Kafea Groupie United States Joined 4933 days ago 78 posts - 98 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Smi | Message 60 of 541 07 October 2011 at 6:52am | IP Logged | |||||
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I also think it sounds like 'h' before a 'v' is said. Dictation is tricky but after a lot of practice I'm getting better at spelling what I am hearing.
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| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 61 of 541 08 October 2011 at 8:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
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FINNISH
I've felt so out of practice out with my Finnish that I've decided to brush up by working through Borje Vähämäki's "Mastering Finnish" before using other material. So far I've already done chapters 1 and 2 and for my purposes, the relatively few exercises that Vähämäki assigns per chapter seem good enough. It's very simple stuff so far but it's good to be thinking about Finnish grammar again, and looking things up as I do the exercises. I'm also set to take some private lessons in Finnish with a few others and look forward to meeting other people who are studying Finnish, as well as get some extra practice. *** NORTHERN SAAMI I have completed Chapter 2 of Davvin 1 and was introduced to the pronunciation of a few more items, and the conjugation in present tense singular of leat "to be". 1) pronunciation of a few more items ea is pronounced somewhat like Finnish eä but noticeably as a diphthong (gliding vowel) rather than a pair of distinct vowels ii is pronounced similarly to Finnish ij ei is pronounced similarly to Finnish ej initial b, d and g are each pronounced similarly to Finnish p, t and k ŋ is pronounced similarly to English nk (cf. "honk") final t is pronounced similarly to ht when it occurs at the end of a sentence. Otherwise it's pronounced similarly to h (i.e. the final t becomes nearly imperceptible or absent altogether) 2) conjugation of leat in present tenses singular mun lean; don leat; son lea "I am; you are; he/she is" Vocabulary of Chapter 2 bures - "well" [adverb] bures dat manná - "it goes well" dat - "he, she, it" dearvvasvuohta - "health" do - "[over] there" don - "you" du - "your" eamit - "wife" eret - "minus" gii - "who" giitu buorre - "Fine, thank you" -gis - "then" já - "yeah", "thus" ja - "and" juo - "yes", "yeah" lea - "is" leat - "[you] are" manná - "goes" mii - "what" mii gullo - "how are you?" (mii gul'lo) mot - "how" mu - "my" na - "well" [interjection/particle] namma - "name" nieida - "girl" nubbi - "second" ráfi - "peace" ráhkesvuohta - "love" vissa - "probably" (vis'sa) Numbers 13-24 (number of pages in the chapter) golbmanuppelohkái - 13 njealljenuppelohkái - 14 vihttanuppelohkái - 15 guhttanuppelohkái - 16 čiežanuppelohkái - 17 gávccinuppelohkái - 18 ovccinuppelohkái - 19 guoktelogi - 20 guoktelogiokta - 21 guoktelogiguokte - 22 guoktelogigolbma - 23 guokteloginjeallje - 24 Examples of Northern Saami taken from my answers to the exercises. 1. Mii du namma lea? - Mu namma lea Chung. 2. Don leat vissa Chung? - Juo, mun lean Chung. 3. Gii don leat? - Mun lean Chung. - Já, Chung don leat. 4. Buore beaivvi. Mun lean Juvvá. 5. Ipmel atti. Mu namma lea Máret. 6. Na gii dongis leat? 7. Mun lean Joavnna. 8. Já, don leat Joavvna. Edited by Chung on 11 October 2011 at 5:05pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tricoteuse Pentaglot Senior Member Norway littlang.blogspot.co Joined 6679 days ago 745 posts - 845 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Norwegian, EnglishC1, Russian, French Studies: Ukrainian, Bulgarian | Message 62 of 541 10 October 2011 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I like your choice of languages!
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| liddytime Pentaglot Senior Member United States mainlymagyar.wordpre Joined 6230 days ago 693 posts - 1328 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Galician Studies: Hungarian, Vietnamese, Modern Hebrew, Norwegian, Persian, Arabic (Written) | Message 63 of 541 10 October 2011 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
Wow! Chung you are quite the inspiration to us all at HTLAL! Maybe someday you might even throw in a "hard" language! ;-) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 7157 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 64 of 541 10 October 2011 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
There is a somewhat negative relationship between a language's popularity and my choosing to study that language ;-)
Thank you, but I defer to people such as glossika, leosmith or Vlad among others for having successfully crossed over 3 or more linguistic phyla. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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