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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 89 of 126 05 October 2014 at 10:50am | IP Logged | |||||
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Then what is the difference between zumute and zu Mute, which is the form I encountered
in a book I was reading yesterday? Simply an orthographical difference? Edited by tarvos on 05 October 2014 at 10:50am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5600 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 90 of 126 05 October 2014 at 11:50am | IP Logged | |||||
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"Zumute" is the traditional spelling. Since the reformation of the spelling "zu Mute" is an admissable variant.
This is a problem of "Verblaßte Substantive" ("paled nouns"), where nouns have lost their force to stand alone in capitals because they have melted into an propositional composition. Other examples are anstelle, anhand, aufgrund, zuzeiten (although there is die Stelle, die Hand, der Grund, die Zeit). The "paling" is a subjective and continuous process, so there is no real consensus for many expressions, when exactly the noun will have lost its independence according to "Sprachgefühl". Edited by Cabaire on 05 October 2014 at 11:57am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4083 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 91 of 126 13 October 2014 at 2:43am | IP Logged | |||||
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Assimil had the sentence:
Können Sie gut Witze erzählen? The translation says "Can you tell jokes well". My first thought was "gut Witze" would mean "Can you tell good jokes [now]?" How can I figure out if the adjective is for the Witze or for the action? The adjective ending? Also, can we also say (with apologies to Doitsujin for trying out a new word order): Können Sie Witze gut erzählen? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5321 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 92 of 126 13 October 2014 at 9:36am | IP Logged | |||||
You actually answered your own question. Since many German adverbs have the same form as an uninflected adjective, you can usually tell an adverb from an adjective, if it doesn't have the expected adjective ending: Können Sie gute Witze erzählen = Can you tell good jokes. [adjective] Können Sie gut Witze erzählen = Can you tell jokes well. [adverb]
For once, your variation actually make sense. :-) However, it stresses "gut." The Assimil sentence is the normal, expected word order. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4083 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 93 of 126 15 October 2014 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks!
Darn, that is difficult. I quite hate this system of a qualifier being wayyy away from the thing it qualifies. Adverbs should be immediately followed by verbs. Another Q: I encountered in Assimil: zu ihren Gunsten The dictionary says zu jds Gunsten with jds=genitive The question: how is "ihren" being genitiv? Should it not be "ihrer"? The closest I could find is dessen/deren, but I could not find "ihren". Also, why is die Gunst changing to Gunsten? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4522 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 94 of 126 15 October 2014 at 11:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
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why "Gunsten": http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Gunst point c
It's plural dative, that's why the possessive changes to "ihren". A noun in this position would be in genitive, the according pronoun would be the possessive pronoun. This possessive pronoun must be declined in congruence to the noun, and "Gunsten" is dative plural. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4083 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 95 of 126 19 October 2014 at 11:13am | IP Logged | |||||
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^^Aha, thanks
"zu seines Freundes Gunsten" and "zu seinen Gunsten". That was a basic mistake I made in adjective endings. Question: Sie blieben stehen means they remained standing, or they stopped? Edited by Gemuse on 19 October 2014 at 11:14am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4708 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 96 of 126 26 October 2014 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Could be either depending on whether they were already moving or not.
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