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German: Random questions | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4083 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes  Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 97 of 126 08 November 2014 at 4:11am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks!
Another one: in Assimil I encountered: ...fragen Sie ihn... ...sagen Sie ihm... Is there a logic to why it's akk for fragen and dat for sagen? On another note: If I want to say "I'd rather read on my own", how do I say it? Ich lese lieber selbst? Edited by Gemuse on 08 November 2014 at 4:16am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Via Diva Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation last.fm/user/viadivaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4235 days ago 1109 posts - 1427 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German, Italian, French, Swedish, Esperanto, Czech, Greek | Message 98 of 126 08 November 2014 at 6:29am | IP Logged | |||||
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I ask him - I wait for reaction, for him to say something
I say to him - I give him my words (kind of) Actually, screw the explanations. Him/ to him should be enough. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6598 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 99 of 126 08 November 2014 at 6:29am | IP Logged | |||||
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English doesn't have cases anymore. And even in two languages that have cases, they never match 100%.
But even English uses "say to him" (or even "tell this to him", as long as it's not directly after the verb). It's maybe easier to understand in the context of other dative verbs/structures. The dative generally focuses on the concept of giving, doing something for another person's benefit. Often a specific object is mentioned, facing the action more directly than the recipient. There's no wording that applies to all dative verbs, and sometimes the connection might be lost. Also, see this. Fragen is a bit of an exception. Given that there are two separate cases, the natural tendency is to use both instead of using the same one in two functions. That's what happens in "jemandem eine Frage stellen" - you explicitly say that you're giving them something, a question. I suppose in fragen the "giving" is too implicit. Anyway, I just tried to show that generally there's some sort of logic within the language. If you wanted a logical rule that would show you when to use the accusative and when dative, I'm afraid I have to disappoint you. Just like with the gender and plural, there are only general patterns and exceptions. And some gray area that is best covered by input (and corrected output), since the "rules" cover a range that's only marginally larger than their exceptions. Since you like to rely on intuition, one trick you can try is making the sentence passive, to see what sounds more natural. More info about the passive here. Edited by Serpent on 08 November 2014 at 6:41am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5600 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 100 of 126 08 November 2014 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
Yeah, you can say so. For example people who do not like audio books can say that sentence. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4083 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 101 of 126 10 November 2014 at 3:10am | IP Logged | |||||
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Can I also phrase it as:
Ich würde lieber sebst lesen. ? Thanks everyone. Edited by Gemuse on 10 November 2014 at 3:11am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4845 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 102 of 126 10 November 2014 at 11:39am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes, that's possible. No problem! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| schoenewaelder Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5561 days ago 759 posts - 1197 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 103 of 126 10 November 2014 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's funny, I always thought you couldn't have two accusatives. Does that only happen with "etwas, was, nichts" or can you construct a sentence with something concrete in place of "etwas" (with "dich etwas fragen") Edited by schoenewaelder on 10 November 2014 at 3:43pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| schoenewaelder Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5561 days ago 759 posts - 1197 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 104 of 126 10 November 2014 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I've noticed a couple of times the word order seems a bit odd in comics:
"Großvater war dafür gestraft worden, dass er mich hatte vom "Baum der Erkenntnis" kosten lassen" I think that would normally be: "... hatte kosten lassen" Any explanation ? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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