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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5321 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes  Speaks: German*, English | Message 65 of 126 03 September 2014 at 8:29am | IP Logged | |||||
To repeat myself, in this sentence, "eingeschlafen" is an adjective derived from the past participle. present tense: Der Mann scheint eingeschlafen zu sein. past tense: Der Mann schien eingeschlafen zu sein.
If you wanted to use a verb, you'd have to say: present tense: Der Mann scheint zu schlafen. past tense: Der Mann schien zu schlafen. You could theoretically use "Der Mann scheint einzuschlafen." to refer to a man who is about to fall asleep, but I seriously doubt that any native speaker would use this construction. Native speakers would rather use "Der Mann schläft gleich ein." 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4845 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 66 of 126 03 September 2014 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | |||||
IMHO this is the past participle! The whole construction ("eingeschlafen zu sein") is sometimes called Infinitiv Perfekt and consists of the infinitive of the auxilliary plus the past participle of the main verb. This especially makes sense if we use a verb that takes "haben" for the formation of the Perfekt: "Der Mann scheint gegessen zu haben." I've never heard of any adjective that is used with "haben". 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5321 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 67 of 126 03 September 2014 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | |||||
I disagree. Though "eingeschlafen zu sein" is technically, of course, an "Infinitiv Perfekt" construction, it functions more like an adjective in this sentence. You can easily test this assumption with an "Ersatzprobe" (substitution test). The same test would fail with your example sentence "Der Mann scheint gegessen zu haben." because you'd be hard-pressed finding an adjective that could take the place of "gegessen" in this particular sentence. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4845 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 68 of 126 03 September 2014 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
Sorry, but this doesn't convince me. If we change the construction and simply say: "Der Mann ist eingeschlafen", we get a normal Perfekt sentence with a participle. Why should "eingeschlafen" magically change from a participle to an adjective if we change the construction? Let's ask for "eingeschlafen" in the sentence: Would you say "Wie scheint der Mann zu sein?" or "Was scheint der Mann zu sein?"? Personally, I'd prefer the latter question, which indicates a verb and not an adjective. Moreover, a participle is by definition a verbal adjective, so saying "eingeschlafen" is a participle in the function of an adjective seems to be a little bit redundant to me.
Yes, but for the reasons that I mentioned (haben-Perfekt vs. sein-Perfekt) and not because "eingeschlafen" belongs to a different word class than "gegessen". Edited by Josquin on 03 September 2014 at 3:41pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Gemuse Senior Member Germany Joined 4083 days ago 818 posts - 1189 votes Speaks: English Studies: German | Message 69 of 126 04 September 2014 at 3:39am | IP Logged | |||||
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A super simple question:
What is the logic behind nicht-nichts in 1. Das geht nicht. 2. Das macht nichts. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5600 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 70 of 126 04 September 2014 at 6:16am | IP Logged | |||||
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"Nichts" is the negative form of "etwas". If "etwas" is a required complement, i.e. the sentence would be uncomplete without it, the negation is always "nichts"
Example: etwas = compulsory etwas – nichts Hast du gestern in der Stadt etwas gekauft? – Nein, ich habe nichts gefunden. (kaufen + Akkusativ) – (finden + Akkusativ) If the word "etwas" is not obligatory, but possible, the negation is "nichts" or "nicht" Example: etwas = nicht obligatorisch etwas – nichts/nicht Hast du im Lotto (etwas) gewonnen? – Nein, ich habe nichts gewonnen./ Nein, ich habe nicht gewonnen. If the verb is intransive, the negation is always "nicht". Ich gehe jetzt. Ich gehe jetzt nicht. You cannot say *Das macht, but you can say: Das macht etwas, f.e. Das macht mir sehr wohl etwas aus (It does indeed matter to me). Edited by Cabaire on 04 September 2014 at 6:17am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| gemiscorp Tetraglot Newbie Thailand Joined 3738 days ago 6 posts - 6 votes Speaks: English*, German, Thai, French | Message 71 of 126 04 September 2014 at 8:18am | IP Logged | |||||
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A past participle can be used as an adjective.
Cf: Es wird gemalt. - past participle Es ist schon gemalt. - adjective Question: Would it not be more common to just say "Es scheint mir, dass der Mann eingeschlafen ist?" 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4845 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 72 of 126 04 September 2014 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
A participle is a verbal adjective, so it combines characteristics of a verb and an adjective. It's true some participle can be used like normal adjectives, but a sentence like "Das Bild ist schon gemalt" is simply a Zustandspassiv. For further discussion of this topic please confer this thread: Wann bist du geboren?
I think the most common way to phrase it would be: "Anscheinend ist der Mann eingeschlafen." 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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