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Pronunciation of can’t | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6438 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 33 of 68 10 February 2012 at 12:24am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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I was going to make a similar thread the other day discussing the following.
I have heard many people pronounce "can" as "ken." "yeah, I ken do that." But "can't" retains the same short "a" sound. Also, the people who pronounce it as "ken" only say the verb that way, they still pronounce the thing that soda comes in as "can." But the people that I've heard say it this way, it's only sometimes, and I haven't been able to figure out the rules for it yet. I'm not sure if they know they're saying it that way or not, either. When you say it quickly, many of the sounds change. When people say "I can go to the store" very quickly, it almost sounds like "aigen" or almost even nasally, "ai-ngen go...". I'm talking about very rapid speech here. I'd put up an example if I had a microphone. edit - It's not just a fast/lazy thing. They even say it that way if they're enunciating it. Even when they slow it down, they still say "ken." I remember in college, a friend of mine who pronounced it that way, I told her that something couldn't be done, and she replied at a moderate speaking pace, "no, you ken" ("you" meaning "one," not me in particular. I don't remember what we were talking about now, this was like 12 years ago). That was the first time I consciously noticed someone pronouncing it as "ken." I noticed it more and more over the years. She was Canadian if that matters. Edited by IronFist on 10 February 2012 at 12:33am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6438 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 34 of 68 10 February 2012 at 12:26am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
This. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| IronFist Senior Member United States Joined 6438 days ago 663 posts - 941 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 35 of 68 10 February 2012 at 12:35am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
This, too. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Northernlights Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4676 days ago 73 posts - 93 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French | Message 36 of 68 10 February 2012 at 1:29am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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OMG the time I've spent on this forum over the past couple of days is completely ridiculous, but I just had to reply to this. I'm going to open another thread about R soon because I'm now wondering about the differences between the US and UK non-rhotic ways of pronouncing it.
So, back to the "can" and "can't' debate:
I think, not completely sure though, that you're referring to the strong versus weak vowel in "can", so stressed or unstressed. In the stressed version, you say it strongly and in full, but when it's unstressed you sort of rush over it and squash the vowel into a "uh" sound, "khn" or like you wrote, "ken". How I say it could be interpreted as "ken" I expect.
Yes, in Britain that's exactly how it is: we'd never say "khn" or "ken" for "can" when it means the tin thing soda comes in. Only when it's "can" as in the verb, and unstressed.
No, we're not aware of it, it's natural and happens as part of the natural flow of the sentence. I think the rule would be if it's stressed, so particularly important to the meaning of the sentence, then we'd say "Khan" but otherwise we'd say it the relaxed, unstressed way, "Khn"or "Khen".
Yes, it really seems that way. I'll try to write how we'd say that in SE Brit Eng: I can go to the store Ay-*Kn-go-te-the-staw staw = rhymes with straw, law, poor, sore, soar *There'd sometimes be a glottal stop instead of the K in Kn, depending on how formally you're speaking - glottal stop being the informal version.
In that case we'd use the strong / stressed version because it's emphasising "can" as opposed to "can't" , so, "no, you khahrnt". Actually, in this sentence the "you" would be unstressed, and be "ye" not a full "yoo" so "no ye khahrnt"
That's interesting, I've heard that Canadian is sometimes between Am and Brit English. Edited by Northernlights on 10 February 2012 at 1:32am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Northernlights Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4676 days ago 73 posts - 93 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French | Message 37 of 68 10 February 2012 at 1:35am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
We've also got that problem with the numbers, so fifty / fifteen, seventy / seventeen etc can be confused 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5957 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 38 of 68 10 February 2012 at 2:08am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
That sounds exactly Canadian to me: both the "ken" sound for "can", the "you ken" in this context for "it can be done" and (tongue in cheek here, so this may come out garrbled) our irresistible national instinct to contradict. Edited by Spanky on 10 February 2012 at 2:13am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Camundonguinho Triglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 4750 days ago 273 posts - 500 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English, Spanish Studies: Swedish | Message 39 of 68 10 February 2012 at 9:06am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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According to the New Oxford Dictionary of English,
in standard British English (RP), the difference between the vowels in CAN and CAN'T is only front[ed]ness/back[ed]ness of the vowel: can Pronunciation: /kan/ http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/can?q=can can't Pronunciation: /kɑːnt/ http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/can%27t?q=can%27t Furthermore, a simple word like BATH can have at least three possible pronunciations in British English: http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/sounds/regional-voices/pho nological-variation/ 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Northernlights Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4676 days ago 73 posts - 93 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French | Message 40 of 68 10 February 2012 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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Like the map you linked to illustrates, the A in words like BATH, PATH is one of the letters that change depending on if you're in the north, south or west of England. It's one of the things we notice when placing where someone's from. Another letter that changes like that is U. Can I ask the Americans here about the R? I was going to open a new thread, but I've been somewhat overenthusiastic posting all around the forum. I've heard that for people who always pronounce the R when it's spelled that way, so for example Americans and Scots, the way we in SE and N England add in Rs when they're not there sounds really odd. We're not actually aware we do it, it was pointed out to me by an American. I'll try to think of an example: He saw a car Hee-sor-ra-kaah Between the W of saw and the A we'd pronounce an R sound. How do Americans move on from saw to a, with a glottal stop? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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