Bolio’s Spanish Log (Language Learning Log) Language Learning Forum

Bolio’s Spanish Log
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BOLIO
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4660 days ago
253 posts - 366 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

Message 89 of 344

11 April 2014 at 6:28pm | IP Logged

Nancy, HAHA... I only have one "EASY" language to worry about. You have mine AND Arabic!!!!! It is funy, being here in the South, when I read TOBOGGAN, my first thought was, "What else could that mean besides a hat??" Regionalisms are very interesting and I guess they take place in many if not all languages.

When I started getting serious (AKA, this log), I thought that if I complete Assimil and FSI then I could start with native materials, not as a way to discover MANY new vocab words, but for enjoyment while looking up an occasional word. I then just kind of "played around" with it one day and I liked it. I could be further along in my studies if I had stuck to my first plan but maybe not. I do feel a little guilty because I think I should be GRINDING it out via Assimil and FSI. I still do both but not near as many hours or as consistent as I should be doing them. Who knows, I may go back to it. Even if I only do each for 30 minutes a day. We will see.

Only one hour yesterday. Second worst day since I started again. I had a seminar I put on last night for clients and it lasted way longer than I thought. I ordered some new books yesterday and I am excited. I don't know why because I don't have enough time to go through what I have now.

They are;

Practice Makes Perfect: Spanish Conversation (Practice Makes Perfect Series)
Yates, Jean

La Sombra del Viento Ruiz Zafon, Carlos (Just dreaming for NOW. Someday I will be able to enjoy this book)

Practice Makes Perfect Spanish Verb Tenses,

Breaking Out of Beginner's Spanish Keenan, Joseph J.
I saw LUKE (I think) go on and on about how great this book is. I can't wait to see it and see how far I have to go before I can use it).

I am very excited and motivated. Everyone enjoy your studies. Hasta Luego.

53/397 to go

1 person has voted this message useful

BOLIO
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4660 days ago
253 posts - 366 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

Message 90 of 344

11 April 2014 at 7:16pm | IP Logged

I found a cool website that might be helpful to some.

For some reason I cannot get the link to work.

http://www.laits.utexas.edu/spe/siteindex.php

From the earliest stages of learning to as advanced as B1 or B2 maybe.

Enjoy.

Edited by BOLIO on 11 April 2014 at 9:14pm
1 person has voted this message useful

nancydowns
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3924 days ago
184 posts - 288 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written)

Message 91 of 344

12 April 2014 at 1:39pm | IP Logged

Don't worry about your technique! I think you are doing great. You are exposed to native reading material and native speaking, and so you are
definitely going to progress. When you run into a grammatical construction that you don't understand, you can just go to one of the references and
look it up! We all learn differently, and we all find different things motivating. I was reading on the thread in another subforum about
scriptorium and some people said they were going to quit it because it wasn't helping them. People find different things motivating and
demotivating. I say that you should forget about feeling guilty! You should only feel guilty in language learning if you aren't putting in time
and effort. Well, I know you are putting in time and effort, so no reason at all to feel guilty.

I WANT to read books in Spanish, and I have left them behind so I won't be tempted. But for me, the reason I am waiting is because I am afraid
that once I get into it, I will feel like I am in over my head. And for me, the "in over my head" feeling is demotivating. So now I have a goal
of when I hope to start reading those books, and really, it's not that far in the future, just a few months. If I can just keep going with my
other stuff, I will soon be there! It will be interesting to see in August where we are in our levels... not that I feel like it is useful to
compare... but I do think your exposure to native materials and native speakers this early is going to give you an advantage later. So that means
I will just have to work super hard to keep up with you! :-)

We are all different! The way we learn and the things that motivate us can be completely different. I guess that's one reason that our high school
language classes aren't so effective. there, everyone is expected to learn in the same way. But with our self-study, we are in control of our own
learning. So don't feel guilty! Just do what works for you and move forward with it. Only feel guilty if you give up!
2 persons have voted this message useful

James29
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5377 days ago
1265 posts - 2113 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: French

Message 92 of 344

12 April 2014 at 2:27pm | IP Logged

Yes, have fun and do whatever you want. Doing whatever keeps you going is the secret. Early on I really enjoyed doing courses like Assimil and FSI because I really enjoyed the feeling of progress. I knew I was learning and every day after I finished a lesson I'd say to myself "wow, I really like learning Spanish."

Then, there was a point where I just wanted to do other things and test out books and TV shows. I am sure it was not as helpful for my progress and I could have advanced more if I "studied" harder, but I did what I wanted. People often don't realize that just sticking with it is the key. I have been going for about 4.5 years now on 30-60 minutes a day. I certainly could be much more advanced if I spent all that time grinding it out... but, in reality, I might have quit if I forced myself to do things I really did not want to. I'm not sure if I am making sense or not.

Sometime go way back in the log section of the forum and take a look at logs that got abandoned. So often people on this forum talk about what works for them. Their input is certainly insightful and helpful, but the advice is only coming from people who have succeeded. So many people start studying and then quit. I often try to think about what I can learn from the learners that do not succeed. What would they tell me if they were still here?

The only two things I see in common for people who are successful are 1) they make learning their language a habit 2) they proceed in a way where they are always interested in doing more (looking forward to) the next day.

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Crush
Tetraglot
Senior Member
ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5867 days ago
1622 posts - 2299 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto
Studies: Basque

Message 93 of 344

14 April 2014 at 3:18am | IP Logged

The main joy i got out of studying Spanish was the feeling at the end of the day that i had progressed. That's why i loved Platiquemos/FSI, at the end of every unit i knew that i could use a new grammatical structure (and new vocabulary). I could feel my progress throughout the entire course, and that was the most motivating aspect for me. After finishing it it definitely felt like i made much slower progress, but that's mostly because after that my range had to spread out so wide: fill in grammar gaps and a ton of new vocabulary to be able to function in Spanish.

Also, don't be afraid to ask questions here if you've got them!
1 person has voted this message useful

BOLIO
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4660 days ago
253 posts - 366 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

Message 94 of 344

14 April 2014 at 4:56pm | IP Logged

Nancy, as always, thanks for the post. I appreciate it. I spent some time with the Scriptorium this weekend and I will get to it in a minute but I really liked it.

James, thanks for adding and I agree with what you said. I have also went back and looked at the logs that never got off the ground.I WAS NOT going to be one of those that fell by wayside. I look forward to finishing Assimil now. I had drifted away from it. I will incorporate 30-40 minutes every day with Assimil. I am trying to use FSI but it is third or fourth on the list right now and so sometimes I do not get to it. It is weird because I do like the drills although the repeating the entire dialogue in the space provided is almost impossible for me...the little pieces are easy and repeating the drills are easy but the whole dialogue is difficult for me.

Crush, I could see how a person would feel that way. And if a person truly masters a Unit in FSI, they are really learning something for sure. Ok, I am going to take you up on the questions today.

So, I spent some time with the Scriptorium method this weekend. I did seven Assimil lessons. I concentrated on the English and tried to translate it back to Spanish and then checked my thoughts against the book. I then started to write(and speak) while really concentrating on the meaning and the structure. I really like it and I think I am learning so I will continue to use it. Questions from the weekend:

1)He pagado veinte pesetas por la leche.
     When I translate it in my mind before checking the answer, I had "Pagué veinte...".

2)Va a faltarme dinero.(What on God's green earth are they talking about)
     Voy a necesitar un poco dinero.

3) Miraba un Pájaro y soñaba.(I have trouble with this tense/I will try to use it)
   I used Miré and then I threw a distorted sueño at the end. This lesson was by far the most difficult.

4)Me hablabais y luego nos poníamos todos a jugar.
   I used...Me hablaste y luego ponemos a jugar.

5)La voy a comprar pasado mañana.
     I used .. Puedo ir a comprarlo pasado Mañana.

6)Sin embargo, se lo he explicado. (I have explained it to him though.)
    I do not get this. Why the Se? Why not..Lo he explicado a él.

7) Os las voy a dar.(????)
    Voy a darles a ustedes. (I do not understand the OS or its purpose)

8) Se la coseré luego.
    Voy a coserlo para él más tarde.

I learned a neat expression that is an example of why I am liking the scriptorium. I had studied these lessons in the passive phase and many of these ideas have not stuck with me. One is the idea (acabar + infinitive = have just). I have already started using it in my very limited conversation. Last night we were around friends and when they offered me something to eat...I used "Gracias, pero, acabo de comer". It felt good because no one gave me a blank look.

I am asking for help, but really, I know what the answer is...more exposure and more study. Thanks for all of you that help me by visiting my log.

58/392

Edited by BOLIO on 14 April 2014 at 5:05pm
2 persons have voted this message useful

nancydowns
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3924 days ago
184 posts - 288 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written)

Message 95 of 344

14 April 2014 at 8:55pm | IP Logged

wow, that's great, Bolio! I am so glad you are enjoying the Scriptorium. It is kind of time-consuming, but I feel like it is really helping to put these
things into my brain!

I am going to see what Crush or someone else says about your questions, but there are two I can comment on because I have the same book as you. :-)

2) The literal reading they gave of that sentence is "money is going to lack to me." So I guess the money is "doing" the lacking, so that's why they used
"Va" instead of "voy." Somewhere I read about this that in Spanish they often talk about things doing something to them. This is one of the things I
learned yesterday from my Panamanian friend. I was asking her about gustar because I didn't understand why it was "me gusta, te gusta, se gusta, nos
gusta..." No change in the verb. But gustar means "to be pleasing." So if I am talking about coffee, I say "me gusta el café" It is congugated this way
because it is the coffee doing the action of pleasing me. So the only change is if it is plural, like tacos. "me gustan los tacos" They are pleasing me.

7) Os is the object pronoun for vosotros, like nos is for nosotros (Page 67, 68). Assimil teaches the Spain Spanish, so you learn the vosotros form, but I
guess Latin American Spanish does not use vosotros (which is you plural informal). I guess in Latin America, you plural is just ustedes, no matter who it
is.

Hope you don't mind me writing this, it actually helps me to clarify things in my own mind when I try to explain them! :-) However, I may be a little off,
so I am anxious to see what answers you get!
1 person has voted this message useful

Crush
Tetraglot
Senior Member
ChinaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5867 days ago
1622 posts - 2299 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Esperanto
Studies: Basque

Message 96 of 344

14 April 2014 at 10:03pm | IP Logged

Great, i'll see what i can do to answer your questions!

Quote:

1)He pagado veinte pesetas por la leche.
When I translate it in my mind before checking the answer, I had "Pagué veinte...".

A lot of times Spanish prefers the present perfect where we would use the simple past, especially in things that have happened recently. I'm not sure what the context of the sentence is, but i'd say what you wrote would probably be fine, too.

Quote:

2)Va a faltarme dinero.(What on God's green earth are they talking about)
Voy a necesitar un poco dinero.

As Nancy explained, faltar means to lack. What they're saying is "I'm not going to have enough money". "Me falta dinero" means "I am lacking/missing money". "¡Nos faltan dos dólares!" either: "We are missing two dollars!" or "We are two dollars short."

Quote:

3) Miraba un Pájaro y soñaba.(I have trouble with this tense/I will try to use it)
I used Miré and then I threw a distorted sueño at the end. This lesson was by far the most difficult.

If you use miré, you weren't looking at the bird before then you turn to it and look at it. Here "miraba" is similar to "I was looking at a bird and dreaming." It takes a while to get these two tenses down (i still have trouble with it), but the FSI course spends a good amount of time trying to iron it out.

Quote:

4)Me hablabais y luego nos poníamos todos a jugar.
I used...Me hablaste y luego ponemos a jugar.

I'm not sure what you're translating from, but hablábais is the vosotros form in the past imperfect. Again, hablaste vs hablabas is the difference between something being completed and something being in progress. Or it could be a repeated action. It sounds like "We would speak and then we would all start playing."

Quote:

5)La voy a comprar pasado mañana.
I used .. Puedo ir a comprarlo pasado Mañana.

Your sentence makes perfect sense, just mañana doesn't need the capital M.

Quote:

6)Sin embargo, se lo he explicado. (I have explained it to him though.)
I do not get this. Why the Se? Why not..Lo he explicado a él.

When you have "a él", you'll generally add "se" to it as well. So you'll say "se lo he explicado" or if you wanted to stress to whom it was, since it could be él, ella, el mono, etc., you could say "se lo he explicado a él". Normally, you would say "le he explicado algo". However, instead of saying "le lo he explicado", the first le turns into se: "se lo he explicado". This and the plural (les lo -> se lo) are the only forms that change, the others (me, te, nos, os) don't change.

Quote:

7) Os las voy a dar.(????)
Voy a darles a ustedes. (I do not understand the OS or its purpose)

Nancy explained this one perfectly. In Latin America, you'd probably hear "Se las voy a dar (a ustedes)" or "Voy a dárselas (a ustedes)."

Quote:

8) Se la coseré luego.
Voy a coserlo para él más tarde.

I think your version is fine (unless it's a feminine object, but even then you can probably get away with "lo"). A lot of times the indirect pronoun will take the place of something like "para ti", "para él", etc. For example: "Te lo hago mañana." "I'll do it for you tomorrow." You could also say "Lo haré para ti mañana." The first version sounds a bit more natural to me, though.

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