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Spanish "v" pronunciation | ||
Tags: Pronunciation | Spanish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| ashshea Newbie United States Joined 5378 days ago 19 posts - 19 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German | Message 1 of 49 22 March 2010 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Please help! I just started studying Spanish (although I took it in high school- but that
was several years ago) and I'm having trouble with pronouncing the letter "v". Everything I read says that the Spanish v and b are pronounced identically as a b sound. However, when I listen to spoken Spanish this does not seem to be the case! For example, go to www.spanishdict.com and listen to the sound recordings for "vaso" and "bajo". Two completely different sounds! I'm very confused... What's going on? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6009 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes  Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 2 of 49 22 March 2010 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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What people think language is like is not always what it really is like.
When someone goes into a recording studio to record language examples, they try to speak "correctly", and what they believe to be correct is often not how they would speak naturally. For example, if you went into a recording studio and were asked to record the words "doctor" and "driver", you might well pronounce the "-er" and "-or" endings differently, when in natural speech you would pronounce them the same. Likewise "-ent"/"-ant" as in "independent" and "observant". The voices you hear in the dictionary will be out-of-work actors, and won't be well enough trained linguistics to say things in a correct, natural manner. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ajijic10 Diglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 6913 days ago 161 posts - 210 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish | Message 3 of 49 22 March 2010 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Don't worry about it. I hear both all of the time. I have the letter "B" twice in my name, and whenever I'm asked to spell it, I have to say "B burro". If it was "V" I would use "V vaca".
Where I live in Mexico, it's not unusual to see "llábame" drawn on a dusty car, or a "cerbeza fría" sign on a storefront. Edited by Ajijic10 on 22 March 2010 at 6:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 4 of 49 22 March 2010 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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B and V are the same bilabial approximant (both lips almost touch). However, word-initial pronunciation is sometimes a bilabial stop (basically like the English B).
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| Cainntear Pentaglot Senior Member Scotland linguafrankly.blogsp Joined 6009 days ago 4399 posts - 7687 votes Speaks: Lowland Scots, English*, French, Spanish, Scottish Gaelic Studies: Catalan, Italian, German, Irish, Welsh | Message 5 of 49 22 March 2010 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I don't believe it's a question of word-initial vs anything else (although a lot of sources claim this).
Spanish makes a non-phonemic* distinction between intervocalic ("between vowels") and non-intervocalic consonants. Intervocalic consonants are more likely to be approximants than their intervocalic counterparts. This is particularly notable in the sort , where "mandado" becomes "mandatho"[th in English "this"] (the first D is nonintervocalic as it has a consonant on one side of it, the second is intervocalic as it is flanked by vowels). In some places, this is weakened so much that you get left with something like "mandao" [Spanish silent h], and it is this same process that left Portuguese with "mandão". (This is also related to the Spanish double-R, single-R difference. An intervocalic single R is a flap, a non-intervocalic one is a trill. Put two single Rs together, and neither is intervocalic any more, so the RR has to be a non-intervocalic R, so trilled.) The idea of initial vs non-initial is not only wrong in that it ignores the intervocalic and non-intervocalic difference in non-initial letters, but there is actually an intervocalic/non-intervocalic difference at the start of words too, because the whole idea of a "word" is arbitrary. Is "no volveré" one word or two? It only has one stressed syllable, and when the Gipsy Kings sing it, there's an approximant intervocalic V and a non-intervocalic stop V -- "novolveré". All sorts of unstressed clitics can incorporate themselves into words (or not), so it's very uncommon to see any sound that is truly "word-initial". * Non-phonemic differences mean there is no change in meaning, which means that if you don't make the difference you will still be understood. Unfortunately, if you don't make the difference in pronunciation you might not understand when you are spoken to. It took me a long time to get used to -ao instead of -ado for past participles, because it sounded different. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5379 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 6 of 49 22 March 2010 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
You are probably right. Either that or approximants assimilate in manner. I believe d is still an approximant when it's at the end of a word after a vowel. How about b?
But not in final position. I don't think you can call single vs. double R to be non- phonemic because there are distinctive pairs. Therefore, they are distinct phonemes. (Not that there isn't any kind of assimilation when more than one come together)
Ah, right. A b would no longer begin the word when it's strung together with another word. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5451 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 7 of 49 22 March 2010 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I believe b still is as well. What my books tell me, is that b and v are pronounced as [b ] only after a pause, m and n, and else as a voiced bilabial fricative [β]. Edited by tractor on 22 March 2010 at 11:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| JacobTM Groupie United States Joined 5596 days ago 56 posts - 67 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 8 of 49 22 March 2010 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Hmm, in my experience you can say either as an English "b", "v", or anything in between. No one will be confused.
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